CF allotment thief part 2: the Battle of Barbara and the Beansprouts

[YaMuvva]

Hi all, sorry I didn’t get a chance to post the link to this in the last thread, but it filled up too quickly.

So, another update

DH and I sat and had a looooong talk last night. We poured over every option, the pro’s and cons and the best and worst case scenarios. We thought of every possible situation that could arise from each option and we made a decision this morning.

it was actually the best/worst case scenario talk that clinched it.
Best case scenario for selling it to her was we get a little bit of money. Worst case is we have no allotment and the house possibly devalues.

Best case scenario for if we shared the land is that she is a pleasant plot neighbour and isn’t bitter that we are on the land that used to be ‘hers’ and doesn’t try to boss us about. But worst case scenario is that she remains bitter and makes our lives hell, interferes and our allotment space becomes an unbearable place to be.

Best case scenario for if we keep it to ourselves is we have the enjoyment of a long awaited allotment, one that makes a massive difference to DH’s MH and our general life enjoyment. Worst case scenario is that we make a neighbour - who is smart enough to find another plot or use her own generous garden - cross.

We figured that the worst case scenarios for all 3 weren’t worth risking the absolute best case scenario could bring.

So we are kicking her off.

We discussed letting her wait some months before making her leave or until the end of the growing season around about the end of September. But that when you consider the weather, that would mean we wouldn’t truly be able to enjoy the allotment in good weather for a whole year. I know it can still be enjoyed in horrible weather but the thought of missing out on a whole entire summer of gardening, relaxing and recuperating just feels too long. She has also indicated she will fight us - well she can try and she won’t win so I’d rather the ‘fight’ was a short one not a long one

We went to the plot this morning (no Babs in sight!) and took a soil test, took pictures, used that app to mark the plots (thanks to PP for the tips), and measured it and took pictures of the measurements/readings. From what we can tell she has root veg, fruit and a little herb garden patch, all growing fairly well considering the time of year. We didn’t disturb anything

Going to call the home insurers today to see if we can get legal cover and reclaim costs from the previous owner so solicitors can write her a letter - if not we will just instruct our current solicitors and make the reclaim too. I know we could do a letter ourselves but I really think a legal middle man would be worth the money. We will take solicitors advice on how much notice to give her - but it won’t be long notice. No point, may as well rip the plaster off now. We won’t be offering to buy the shed as I don’t want to be beholden to Barbara or have her make out to others that we stole the shed. We want a clean slate, to pick our own items.

I do feel bad that Barbara will be losing something that is so dear to her and that her ‘sanctuary’ will be taken away but the bottom line is it does not belong to her and she has known this for 10 years. She could have spent that 10 years, or even just the nine months since the house went on the market, to find another sanctuary. We are being selfish, we have been through unimaginable struggles and it’s time to just live for ourselves not a random neighbour. If that makes us a pariah in the community I can take it.

DH also messaged our police officer friend of ours this morning who said if the time comes to bin her stuff and dismantle the shed to call 101 and tell them “We are doing this, it’s our property and we will handle everything with care and bring it to her home” and then if she calls them saying we are stealing or damaging our property then we are one step ahead at least.

possible reason is that they were first offered for sale to the folk who were buying the houses. The plots that were not bought by homeowners were sold to anyone who wanted one.

doesn't matter as its been with permission.

You’re missing that OP has been advised by her solicitor already. Always best to read whole threads before jumping in after nearly 2000 posts, or just assume it’s already been covered.

"Unless it’s been declared as part of the conveyance..."

Please have a read of the OP's posts on the original thread. This has already been covered!

For example, a couple of her comments from the previous thread:

"So we hadn’t either and queried it in the conveyancing stages. Apparently when the previous owner bought the house it came with it... I’ve emailed our solicitors to see if they can send any more information"

and

"It’s on the title deeds..."

and

"The solicitor gave the latest title deeds to us before completion"

So, yes, it was included as part of the sale

Thread number 3

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5049200-cf-allotment-thief-part-3-the-plot-thickens-and-auditions-begin-for-the-west-end-musical

We would have cultivated it with or without someone else having had the plot for years. HTH.

And no not letting her see out the growing season as as I’ve stated before we want to full enjoy the whole year of an allotment in good weather.

As an allotment renter are you not used to allotments changing hands? Are you nasty to newcomers?

We probably could yes but I as I’ve said I’m prioritising us and if we aren’t letting her see it out until the end of the growing season there’s no point prolonging the inevitable

It’s not an allotment. It’s a parcel of land sold with the house. Babs knew the house was sold and she’s had ample time to dig up her spuds and leave. Instead she’s planted a new crop knowing she’s likely to be kicked off because the previous arrangement no longer exists. OP owns the land, as do the other ‘allotment’ owners. If they have an attitude all OP needs to do is ask them whether they would be willing to give their own land away to someone else.

To be honest I don’t think a period of notice is reasonable - the longer it goes on it just gives her more of a claim to the land in her own mind. Besides, she’s known for long enough that the house was for sale, then sold. So she must have known that the previous agreement no longer existed.

As an allotment renter are you not used to allotments changing hands? Are you nasty to newcomers?

This is an entirely reasonable point. Therefore expect it to be totally ignored in favour of you being entirely in the wrong, despite it being your own land. This is MN after all !!

Also Babs would have to prove she has the right to use it by being the freehold owner or using it ‘on behalf of a freehold user against another freehold owner’. And she would have to have erected clear signage to that effect as well as fences.

Oh I like this, tell me more.

"Bought the title deeds to all the surrounding houses - no evidence of any external plots. Have no idea why ours has one and v curious to know now."

One possible explanation may be that the plots of land have two different title numbers on the land registry. Does you bit of land have a different title number to your house?

When it comes to land, an easier way of searching for a title is through a map search. For example:

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/map-search/find-by-map

or alternatively here:

https://www.landregistry-uk.com/map-search

which gives you an "Inspire ID" which you can then use to search here:

https://search-property-information.service.gov.uk/search/search-by-inspire-id

You can really zoom in, especially on the land registry map. I just had a quick look at some random places near Hampsthwaite and there are definitely a number of these separate plots of land in the nearby villages.

It may be that the land is owned by the people that own those houses it just may be recorded under a separate title number

I didn’t realised “closest to death” was something to weight on the scales of fairness.

Give over, Barb is out of order and needs to accept her freebie he ended.

I didn’t realised “closest to death” was something to weight on the scales of fairness.

Of course it is. This is MN. Normal non batshit rules don’t apply !!

Was it not suggested by your conveyancing solicitor that you go and check everything is as you expect it to be before exchange? This allotment situation is precisely why this is usually the case. The vast majority of buyers seem not to do this given the outrage of sellers on threads on here when first time buyers want to do this.

We're they no enquiries about the garage and the allotment during the buying process?

Anyway - all that aside I think you're doing the right thing evicting Babs. The seller didn't give vacant possession of the allotment or the garage.

@Another2Cats makes a good point - search elsewhere on the allotment land and see who owns other plots.

Unless it's an old woman knocking the door complaining about noise. In that case MN believes it's ok to unleash hell.

This thread is SO enjoyable

Of course you have to remove her OP, you wouldn’t let her hang out in the bottom of your garden would you?

She had an allotment for 10 years, knew the owner was selling, thought she’d keep quiet and see if she could carry on - fair play to her but the new owners want it as is their right.

The end

Looses the plot could be the sequel, where unable to cope with the loss she returns under cover of darkness with a fork to keep the soil loosened.

“Resident weevil” made me lol

I’ll be honest, in the circumstances with having a big garden with the house, I would be less confrontational and I’d let Barbara stay a bit and try to befriend her - and get her to agree to a legal process and binding agreement that it is your land, she has been using it but she recognises it’s yours and agree a notice period (to be implemented now or when you choose). Then find out what’s important to her and make a deal eg she can look after what she’s planted and use the allotment but you can use it too.

This is because I’ve learned in life that your enemies can become your allies with the right handling, and to hold my fire and try reconciliation as a first strategy (in most situations, not all). It can work brilliantly but I admit it can go wrong and you can end up being a soft touch and taken advantage of by ruthless users if you’re not careful. That’s why I’d be nice to her while getting the legal situation firmly established.

I do agree your experience of the area and the people could be affected by how you handle this. But it’s is tricky one, you every right to kick her off - but there could be a better way. Sometimes when you are kind and understanding to someone who’s in the wrong they will own it themselves and start being reasonable, whereas otherwise they dig their heels in or become vengeful.

When is the 'end of the growing season'? If the OP were to give Babs in autumn then she have sown her winter crops and will have to wait until those are harvest ready and on and on and round and round.

🥀🌹🥦🫛🍅🍓

And no if someone was sleeping in my newly purchased loft I would not tolerate that, but it’s a very different situation with far greater risks and impact.

I would agree except Barbara straight away told OP if she wanted the land she's have to fight for it - OP wasn't really given the opportunity to handle it the way you suggest.

Also keep in mind Barbara knew the house and land were being sold so had time to consider how she would handle it, it wasn't a knee jerk reaction from her.