CF allotment thief part 2: the Battle of Barbara and the Beansprouts

[YaMuvva]

Hi all, sorry I didn’t get a chance to post the link to this in the last thread, but it filled up too quickly.

So, another update

DH and I sat and had a looooong talk last night. We poured over every option, the pro’s and cons and the best and worst case scenarios. We thought of every possible situation that could arise from each option and we made a decision this morning.

it was actually the best/worst case scenario talk that clinched it.
Best case scenario for selling it to her was we get a little bit of money. Worst case is we have no allotment and the house possibly devalues.

Best case scenario for if we shared the land is that she is a pleasant plot neighbour and isn’t bitter that we are on the land that used to be ‘hers’ and doesn’t try to boss us about. But worst case scenario is that she remains bitter and makes our lives hell, interferes and our allotment space becomes an unbearable place to be.

Best case scenario for if we keep it to ourselves is we have the enjoyment of a long awaited allotment, one that makes a massive difference to DH’s MH and our general life enjoyment. Worst case scenario is that we make a neighbour - who is smart enough to find another plot or use her own generous garden - cross.

We figured that the worst case scenarios for all 3 weren’t worth risking the absolute best case scenario could bring.

So we are kicking her off.

We discussed letting her wait some months before making her leave or until the end of the growing season around about the end of September. But that when you consider the weather, that would mean we wouldn’t truly be able to enjoy the allotment in good weather for a whole year. I know it can still be enjoyed in horrible weather but the thought of missing out on a whole entire summer of gardening, relaxing and recuperating just feels too long. She has also indicated she will fight us - well she can try and she won’t win so I’d rather the ‘fight’ was a short one not a long one

We went to the plot this morning (no Babs in sight!) and took a soil test, took pictures, used that app to mark the plots (thanks to PP for the tips), and measured it and took pictures of the measurements/readings. From what we can tell she has root veg, fruit and a little herb garden patch, all growing fairly well considering the time of year. We didn’t disturb anything

Going to call the home insurers today to see if we can get legal cover and reclaim costs from the previous owner so solicitors can write her a letter - if not we will just instruct our current solicitors and make the reclaim too. I know we could do a letter ourselves but I really think a legal middle man would be worth the money. We will take solicitors advice on how much notice to give her - but it won’t be long notice. No point, may as well rip the plaster off now. We won’t be offering to buy the shed as I don’t want to be beholden to Barbara or have her make out to others that we stole the shed. We want a clean slate, to pick our own items.

I do feel bad that Barbara will be losing something that is so dear to her and that her ‘sanctuary’ will be taken away but the bottom line is it does not belong to her and she has known this for 10 years. She could have spent that 10 years, or even just the nine months since the house went on the market, to find another sanctuary. We are being selfish, we have been through unimaginable struggles and it’s time to just live for ourselves not a random neighbour. If that makes us a pariah in the community I can take it.

DH also messaged our police officer friend of ours this morning who said if the time comes to bin her stuff and dismantle the shed to call 101 and tell them “We are doing this, it’s our property and we will handle everything with care and bring it to her home” and then if she calls them saying we are stealing or damaging our property then we are one step ahead at least.

The issue though is surely with the vendor. Babs may well argue she had a tenancy or whatever the argument legally is with the vendor not Babs surely?

Only has a few good scenes ... but those scenes are very good.
e.g. Best Man's speech; photo frame with new photos; ...

What about "Babs loses the Plot"?

A difficult situation. I feel sorry for Barbara. It’s not her fault.

If your in laws wanted the land at the back of someone else’s garden why didn’t they offer to buy it.
Why even investigate taking it by adverse procession.

And why would the new owners have to discuss it with your in laws, they didn’t agree to them using it. The most they could have done is either ask your in-laws to get rid of their stuff or if it was me I would have insisted prior to completion that everything was gone before any money was transferred.

Much like OP this is down to the borrower being a little entitled.

😂

Initially, you should ask the occupier to leave the land. If they do, then all is well. However, you may face problems if they refuse. You can find yourself guilty of several criminal offences if you forcibly attempt to remove the trespasser and their property from the land.
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You can't just remove trespassers, above from the police. She could also just ignore all correspondence and continue to turn up.
It's not that simple.

Unless Babs is a squatter it seems more likely the vendor gave her some permission to use the allotment in whatever form. Kicking her off if she proves she has some right to be there is not useful. The first port of call must be your own solicitors to advise you.

I think ten days notice should be adequate - two weekends and light evenings. Plenty of time, considering she'd already had three months since the sale. If she was silly enough to plant eg spuds, then tough - she'll just have to buy them from the shops this year.

I have remembered that I knew a Barbara - actually a chap, let's call him Eric. He didn't maintain a garden, he started to build first a stone jetty, then a cabin cruiser, on a bit of waterside land that belonged to someone else, accessed by a lane the other person owned, without planning (or any other) permission. Legal stuff happened, PortEric ceased to exist.

Eric and his wife Julia were sociable, popular and well liked, while Mike and Anna, the real owners, were rather reserved. But everyone, all Eric and Julia's friends, all their neighbours, even while E&J sulked and whinged, knew perfectly well that they'd been in the wrong from the start, and carefully steered conversations away from their quite unjustifiable grievance.

Barbara is in the wrong. People know that.

Off-topic but just to say to @BettyMacdonald @BettyBardMacDonald and @viques that I'm another huge Betty fan. Barbara puts me in mind of Birdie Hicks’s mother in ‘The Egg and I’ - “Sixty-four years young next Tuesday and everybody guesses me under forty. He, he, he! Everybody does. It's 'cause I'm so active." Whereupon she shot out of her chair and leaped four feet off the ground after a mosquito.

You don’t know that. You’re applying sentimentality and presuming she’s an allotment angel wrongly put upon. She’s at fault by refusing to leave land that is not hers
For all we know Big Barb could have imposed herself or being an unwelcome gardener who over stayed. The previous owner certainly appears not to have told her..why? Fear? Reticent? Didn’t want the aggro?

Nobody really needs to eject anyone. OP could just start using the land, and let Babs try and fight her for it. As long as they shed isn't damaged etc. That would be a much more interesting conversation. I can imagine it now:-

Babs: hello solicitor, I need advice please? I've been using someone else's patch of land which has now been sold, and the new owner wants to use it herself. I'd like to keep using it. How can I go about this?

Solicitor: so, you have no actual ownership title, and the person who lent it to you has sold, and the new owner doesn't want you to use it anymore because they want to use their land for their purposes? Is that correct?

Babs: yes, that's correct. I'd like you to write to the new owner and tell them I've planted stuff and everything.

Solicitor: click

I know this forum is a bit of fun but for the love of god seek legal advice from your solicitors before you do anything please don’t follow the advice of randoms on here could prove v expensive!!!!

@HappiestSleeping that’s not how the law works in reality!

Up thread someone mentioned to check Barbra’s deeds to see if her house came with a plot too. You might even find out she sold it earlier as she thought she had your plot in the bag so made money. Plot twist!

Prescribed rights

Not been long enough.

I know, but it would be an interesting case study. My scenario would only have been possible had Babs not been in attendance that first time. If the OP hadn't met Babs, she could quite happily have assumed it was all left that way by the previous owner and could have just got started. In a way, it's a shame Babs was on site, although my spidey senses tell me she was probably there a good deal to make sure she was encountered and to stake her claim.

She could v well argue she has used it for years. Perhaps she has. None of us have the facts.

I though OP had?

No

She will argue that she has used it for years. The OP said that this has already been said. She's also admitted that she doesn't own it. The OP said this too.

Babs already has said that she has used it for 10 years. Still irrelevant.

Plot twist - Babs is the queen bee and organiser of the local swingers party scene. OP will be blacklisted from the orgies

That’s factually correct. Previous Informal undocumented past use. New owner and use non transferable

So it’s like carrots in the bowl instead of keys? Or should that be aubergines? 😂