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CF allotment thief part 2: the Battle of Barbara and the Beansprouts

1000 replies

YaMuvva · 12/04/2024 10:24

Hi all, sorry I didn’t get a chance to post the link to this in the last thread, but it filled up too quickly.

So, another update

DH and I sat and had a looooong talk last night. We poured over every option, the pro’s and cons and the best and worst case scenarios. We thought of every possible situation that could arise from each option and we made a decision this morning.

it was actually the best/worst case scenario talk that clinched it.
Best case scenario for selling it to her was we get a little bit of money. Worst case is we have no allotment and the house possibly devalues.

Best case scenario for if we shared the land is that she is a pleasant plot neighbour and isn’t bitter that we are on the land that used to be ‘hers’ and doesn’t try to boss us about. But worst case scenario is that she remains bitter and makes our lives hell, interferes and our allotment space becomes an unbearable place to be.

Best case scenario for if we keep it to ourselves is we have the enjoyment of a long awaited allotment, one that makes a massive difference to DH’s MH and our general life enjoyment. Worst case scenario is that we make a neighbour - who is smart enough to find another plot or use her own generous garden - cross.

We figured that the worst case scenarios for all 3 weren’t worth risking the absolute best case scenario could bring.

So we are kicking her off.

We discussed letting her wait some months before making her leave or until the end of the growing season around about the end of September. But that when you consider the weather, that would mean we wouldn’t truly be able to enjoy the allotment in good weather for a whole year. I know it can still be enjoyed in horrible weather but the thought of missing out on a whole entire summer of gardening, relaxing and recuperating just feels too long. She has also indicated she will fight us - well she can try and she won’t win so I’d rather the ‘fight’ was a short one not a long one

We went to the plot this morning (no Babs in sight!) and took a soil test, took pictures, used that app to mark the plots (thanks to PP for the tips), and measured it and took pictures of the measurements/readings. From what we can tell she has root veg, fruit and a little herb garden patch, all growing fairly well considering the time of year. We didn’t disturb anything

Going to call the home insurers today to see if we can get legal cover and reclaim costs from the previous owner so solicitors can write her a letter - if not we will just instruct our current solicitors and make the reclaim too. I know we could do a letter ourselves but I really think a legal middle man would be worth the money. We will take solicitors advice on how much notice to give her - but it won’t be long notice. No point, may as well rip the plaster off now. We won’t be offering to buy the shed as I don’t want to be beholden to Barbara or have her make out to others that we stole the shed. We want a clean slate, to pick our own items.

I do feel bad that Barbara will be losing something that is so dear to her and that her ‘sanctuary’ will be taken away but the bottom line is it does not belong to her and she has known this for 10 years. She could have spent that 10 years, or even just the nine months since the house went on the market, to find another sanctuary. We are being selfish, we have been through unimaginable struggles and it’s time to just live for ourselves not a random neighbour. If that makes us a pariah in the community I can take it.

DH also messaged our police officer friend of ours this morning who said if the time comes to bin her stuff and dismantle the shed to call 101 and tell them “We are doing this, it’s our property and we will handle everything with care and bring it to her home” and then if she calls them saying we are stealing or damaging our property then we are one step ahead at least.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
22
Oaktree55 · 13/04/2024 10:10
  1. contact your solicitor
  2. vendor presumably contracted to give vacant possession These are your two starting points to redress situation as you have no proper idea of the situation with Barbara. Any approach to Barbara beyond her happily saying sorry hadn’t realised I’ll be off tomorrow is fraught with difficulties!
Nevermindtheteacaps · 13/04/2024 10:13

Well done OP! You sounds fabulous

HolidayHeadache1111 · 13/04/2024 10:15

Oaktree55 · 13/04/2024 09:51

The issue though is surely with the vendor. Babs may well argue she had a tenancy or whatever the argument legally is with the vendor not Babs surely?

Yes, OP does have recourse against the old owner who sold the property and land citing vacant possession when it clearly wasn't. It doesn't change anything with Babs though. Even if she did have an agreement with the old owner in writing it makes no odds now because it wasn't a part of the sale.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

HappiestSleeping · 13/04/2024 10:15

Oaktree55 · 13/04/2024 10:10

  1. contact your solicitor
  2. vendor presumably contracted to give vacant possession These are your two starting points to redress situation as you have no proper idea of the situation with Barbara. Any approach to Barbara beyond her happily saying sorry hadn’t realised I’ll be off tomorrow is fraught with difficulties!

OP has already done this. Babs appears to not be saying sorry, clearly does realise, and has no intention of being off by tomorrow night.

I linked the previous thread about this earlier in this thread. It's all covered in that original thread.

godmum56 · 13/04/2024 10:16

Caplin · 12/04/2024 21:51

I couldn’t be bothered to see if this point has already been made, but if Barbara has been on the land for 10-12 years or more she could claim the land, in which case could argue it should never have been sold to you. It is the law of adverse possession.

1 yes it has...many times......many many times and every time its been answered thusly
"no she can't"

Bookworm1111 · 13/04/2024 10:18

Oaktree55 · 13/04/2024 10:02

Prescribed rights

Needs to be a period of at least 20 years for that to qualify. It's been half that since Babs stuck her trowel in.

Allofaflutter · 13/04/2024 10:18

OP have you thought of writing a letter and taping it to the shed in view of all the other plot holders too? Human nature being so that others will read it too. Saying you are so sorry that Sally mislead her and didn’t tell her she was selling the plot out from under her and how unfair Sally was to Babs and that it was sold to you as vacant so you had no idea about Babs and you bought the house in Jan and want to use the land asap so please could she move with in 2 weeks? Maybe the other plot holders then will understand your point rather than the crap Babs will tell.

Allofaflutter · 13/04/2024 10:20

Maybe even put that your DH is really looking forward to it after his service to his country.

Another2Cats · 13/04/2024 10:21

umberelladay · 13/04/2024 09:54

Initially, you should ask the occupier to leave the land. If they do, then all is well. However, you may face problems if they refuse. You can find yourself guilty of several criminal offences if you forcibly attempt to remove the trespasser and their property from the land.
---

You can't just remove trespassers, above from the police. She could also just ignore all correspondence and continue to turn up.
It's not that simple.

"You can't just remove trespassers, above from the police"

This is totally incorrect - well, at least in England & Wales, I don't know about Scotland. Even the Ramblers Association warn their members about this:

Can I be forced to leave land I am trespassing on?
If you are trespassing and the landowner wants you to leave, they must first ask you to leave. If you refuse, they are permitted to use “reasonable force” to make you leave.

https://www.ramblers.org.uk/go-walking-hub/trespass

Trespass

If you walk on private land without permission to do so you may be trespassing. Read our guide to yours and the landowner’s rights.

https://www.ramblers.org.uk/go-walking-hub/trespass

OnHerSolidFoundations · 13/04/2024 10:23

timenowplease · 13/04/2024 09:28

Some more film titles..

Hell's Orchard

Poison Harvest

Shed No Tears..

Babs Looses The Plot

KateDelRick · 13/04/2024 10:24

OnHerSolidFoundations · 13/04/2024 10:23

Babs Looses The Plot

Or "Babs Loses the Plot"
She's not making the plot looser...

rockingbird · 13/04/2024 10:24

HappiestSleeping · 13/04/2024 09:59

Nobody really needs to eject anyone. OP could just start using the land, and let Babs try and fight her for it. As long as they shed isn't damaged etc. That would be a much more interesting conversation. I can imagine it now:-

Babs: hello solicitor, I need advice please? I've been using someone else's patch of land which has now been sold, and the new owner wants to use it herself. I'd like to keep using it. How can I go about this?

Solicitor: so, you have no actual ownership title, and the person who lent it to you has sold, and the new owner doesn't want you to use it anymore because they want to use their land for their purposes? Is that correct?

Babs: yes, that's correct. I'd like you to write to the new owner and tell them I've planted stuff and everything.

Solicitor: click

I would likely take this approach 😆 it's mine, I have the legal documents to prove it. Piss off Babs I have no time for your sh*t. That shed is on my land prove it's yours and you can have it back.. piss off babs!

Allofaflutter · 13/04/2024 10:25

Plot twist - Babs is Monty Don in drag.

Allofaflutter · 13/04/2024 10:26

I also would take a chair and go sit with a book on the plot and meet the other plot holders.

Allofaflutter · 13/04/2024 10:26

I am far too invested in this!

rockingbird · 13/04/2024 10:27

Allofaflutter · 13/04/2024 10:26

I am far too invested in this!

I think it's fair to say we all are. 😆

Allofaflutter · 13/04/2024 10:27

Fingers crossed Op is currently on the plot with a chair and book and doing live updates from the plot.

Caplin · 13/04/2024 10:31

AllThePotatoesAreSinging · 13/04/2024 09:33

That’s not necessary. You didn’t need to call PP a bitch either. We’ve all got shit going on. Sorry about your Mum’s husband but it’s got nothing to do with the thread or any of the responses here.

Edited

I was called dim and a twat before saying that. Not exactly kind 🙄

Caplin · 13/04/2024 10:34

PineappleTime · 13/04/2024 06:59

That's fair, but did it not occur to you that in 1500+ posts someone else might have already brought that point up?

Yesterday we had devastating family news regarding my mum’s husband, so no, I didn’t have time to read the whole thread. I was in a rush and tried to be helpful. The sarcasm was unnecessary. People could just have ignored it.

HappiestSleeping · 13/04/2024 10:34

rockingbird · 13/04/2024 10:24

I would likely take this approach 😆 it's mine, I have the legal documents to prove it. Piss off Babs I have no time for your sh*t. That shed is on my land prove it's yours and you can have it back.. piss off babs!

Unfortunately, the moment for this has probably passed as Babs was there the first day. Shame though.

YaMuvva · 13/04/2024 10:34

Before the thread closes (and I will make a third promise) a quick ’plot’ (😉) development:

Bought the title deeds to all the surrounding houses - no evidence of any external plots. Have no idea why ours has one and v curious to know now.

Maybe won’t have time to phone the insurers today as DH’s friends called him this morning they are gonna be in the area today and wondered if we would take them to the Dales and show us the best walking routes - fecking DH said yes 🙄 and now we have gone from having a relaxing day to getting our walking gear on and packing a lunch. Bloody men.

OP posts:
Oaktree55 · 13/04/2024 10:35

Everyone saying this that and the other. Unless it’s been declared as part of the conveyance Babs could turn round and say oops sorry it’s been 30 years. So much grey in this whole scenario. With no good outcome. As someone pointed out the whole cliquey allotment mob may well end up hating them unless this is handled delicately.

Infectiousdisease · 13/04/2024 10:39

YaMuvva · 13/04/2024 10:34

Before the thread closes (and I will make a third promise) a quick ’plot’ (😉) development:

Bought the title deeds to all the surrounding houses - no evidence of any external plots. Have no idea why ours has one and v curious to know now.

Maybe won’t have time to phone the insurers today as DH’s friends called him this morning they are gonna be in the area today and wondered if we would take them to the Dales and show us the best walking routes - fecking DH said yes 🙄 and now we have gone from having a relaxing day to getting our walking gear on and packing a lunch. Bloody men.

That's fascinating! Enjoy your day but get back here quickly please! 😄🙏

Itsallfunngamesuntil · 13/04/2024 10:45

Hey OP

I saw a pressie you could get Barbara from not on the hight street lol

CF allotment thief part 2: the Battle of Barbara and the Beansprouts
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