Witnessed a will payment dilemma

[justasking111]

Husband was asked to witness a neighbour will as was another neighbour.

Neighbour had a solicitor draw it up, signed it then passed it to another neighbour then my husband to sign. He did this, other neighbour signatory then said that the will neighbour had given them some money as a thank you. Husband said no you keep it. Neighbour said thanks they'll buy a bottle of wine. Well it turns out that the elderly neighbour gave £200 as a thank you.

We're in a quandary now because husband didn't witness the elderly neighbour signing, nor did he take any money for signing as a witness.

The neighbour who told us about the payment is a recipient in the will so no reason to doubt her.

Could we be in trouble. I ask this because the person whose will it is has disinherited a child because he's been caught emptying accounts of hers.

Would he have grounds to drag us into this mess if he finds out he's getting nothing?

This is even worse. He hasn’t even spoken to the person whose will it is? So some neighbour, who happens to be the new beneficiary now that a son has been cut out, came over and asked him to sign this new will without him speaking to or witnessing the actual owner of the will… and he did it?

What an idiot.

Did your husband sign the will as a witness?
But he didn't actually witness the person signing the will?

I'll have to be tactful, he can be very stubborn especially if he's fucked up

Yep

You need to tell him he could be in deep legal trouble if he doesn't report this.

Witnessing something means you watch it happen.

When you're talking about witnessing a signature on a document it means you're saying, "Yes, I watched this person sign it, it was definitely them, the signature hasn't been forged."

It's particularly important if there is a risk that the will might be challenged later. The child who has been cut out of the will might argue, for example, that one of their siblings made a fake will and forged their mother's signature. Your husband and the other witness might be called upon to confirm that they actually saw her sign the will and neither of them will be able to. There's a risk that the will would be held to be invalid, unless both your husband and the other witness are willing to lie and say they did actually see her sign it.

I'll try

This sounds like someone is committing some kind of fraud. Possibly the first neighbour beneficiary. You need to check on the old lady.

He has also presumably only got the neighbour's word for it that the son has been emptying the elderly person's account.

I always assumed that if you were a witness you signed in front of the solicitor.

Tact is irrelevant here -- he's potentially in a lot more trouble than you being mildly irritated with him. Is he normally this dense? What did he think the point of his signature was, if he wasn't signing to testify that the signature of the person making the will was theirs, and that he had witnessed the signature???

Does your husband know the neighbour whose will it is?

Did you/he not wonder why the word ‘witness’ is used?

No. The whole point is that you can do it without a solicitor. You just need 2 people to have watched you sign it.

He didn’t watch. He hasn’t even spoken to the owner of the will. He has no idea if this is fraud or coercion and he has put his name down as the person guaranteeing that he watches it and vouches for it and if anyone challenges this will, he needs to stand in court and say that he saw it being signed. He can’t. Again, idiot.

If you can’t speak to him then let him read this thread.

Maybe just show your husband this thread....!

You're witnessing the signature being made. It's spelled out very clearly on pretty much any document that requires witnesses.

It beggars belief that you and your DH have got to adulthood without understanding this. And that your DH ignored that any will made by a solicitor will clearly state what witnessing means, and didn't bother reading the instructions on the form.

Doesn't have to be in front of a solicitor as you can make a will without a solicitor being involved.

Obviously, if a solicitor is writing the will they will often be present and may be one of the witnesses.

It is most likely just a fuck up between the testator and the first witness who didn't understand that in order to witness a signature you actually have to witness it.

But yes, it's a risk.

For example, one of the neighbour's children could have had a fake will drawn up in their mother's name disinheriting their brother, forged their mother's signature and offered the first witness a bribe to "witness" the will and then find an unsuspecting useful idiot to be the second "witness". The neighbour might have absolutely no clue about this.

The main problem here isn't the payment, it's the fact that your husband "witnessed" the execution of the will without seeing the testator signing, so he didn't in fact witness the signature and therefore the will is invalid. Since the will is going to be contentious anyway, once the disinherited party gets wind of it they may start asking questions about how the will was executed and when it's found that your husband didn't witness the signature, the will will be found to be invalid and therefore disregarded.

I bloody understand it. He didn't tell me until afterwards.

Does he know what firm of solicitors drew up the will?

Sorry, but on the contrary, you need to be very blunt. Don't dance around it, this could be very serious.

It's easily fixed. The testator just needs to ask the solicitor for a fresh copy of the will, and this time sign and get it witnessed properly.

How could he “witness” a signature if he did not see the person sign it?

That’s the whole point. He needs to go round and tell the person who purportedly made the will and get them to redo it, maybe tell their solicitor.

A neighbours relation, so sort of. He doesn't know what practice they work for though.