Witnessed a will payment dilemma

[justasking111]

Husband was asked to witness a neighbour will as was another neighbour.

Neighbour had a solicitor draw it up, signed it then passed it to another neighbour then my husband to sign. He did this, other neighbour signatory then said that the will neighbour had given them some money as a thank you. Husband said no you keep it. Neighbour said thanks they'll buy a bottle of wine. Well it turns out that the elderly neighbour gave £200 as a thank you.

We're in a quandary now because husband didn't witness the elderly neighbour signing, nor did he take any money for signing as a witness.

The neighbour who told us about the payment is a recipient in the will so no reason to doubt her.

Could we be in trouble. I ask this because the person whose will it is has disinherited a child because he's been caught emptying accounts of hers.

Would he have grounds to drag us into this mess if he finds out he's getting nothing?

Can you speak to the neighbour and suggest they do this? There’s no reason the old one can’t still be binned/shredded and a replacement signed.

Yep. The will is not valid. The testator and witnesses all need to sign the will together and a beneficiary will not be able to inherit if they sign as a witness. I would keep out of it, the testator neighbour needs to contact their solicitor and have it all redone with new independent witnesses.

I assumed the money was just for doing a favour in witnessing the will.

What a cluster fuck.

I could strangle my stupid husband.

Yes it was but husband wasn't interested so the other witness kept it all

What do you think witnessing a signature means?

You're supposed to watch the testator sign their own will and then sign below to say you have watched them sign.

If neither witness saw the testator sign the will then the will is invalid.

This is ridiculous.

Your husband has signed to say he witnessed something that he didn't.

He should be far more concerned about that than any payments going on, although the fact someone is paying people to say they saw something that they didn't does not paint this in the best light...

And you know that the will is controversial as it disinherits someone.

All in all, a brilliant position for your husband to have put himself in.

Yep. Sorry. He's been a total idiot. If he signed as a witness but didn't actually watch the neighbour sign the will, then it's invalid.

I've never been asked to sign a will so how would I know.

What I do know is that I wouldn't sign anything that had been passed around by neighbours let alone a will of a very wealthy woman who had a son who had been robbing her for years

Who actually gave your husband the will to sign? Was it the will maker or ?????

I think you can be paid to witness a will

You can't be a beneficiary of the will.

But those are 2 different things.

He should of course have seen the Will signed or the will writer give him the paper and confirm it's their signature.

Is the neighbour who is a benficiary the same one who co-signed the will as a witness? if so they aren't allowed to do that:

Having two independent witnesses who have no stake in the Will is important to ensure impartiality – people who stand to inherit from your Will are not allowed to be witnesses.

You need to make sure your elderly neighbour isn't being coerced or financially abused by this other 'neighbour', I suggest you go and see her together and at the very least find out who the solicitor dealing with the will is so you can tell them you didn't actually witness it.

The neighbour who told us about the payment is a recipient in the will so no reason to doubt her.

Did this neighbour sign as a witness? And is also a beneficiary (if that is what you mean by recipient?)?

OR did this neighbour who now stands to inherit most of the money bring the will to another neighbour and your DH to witness, and offering ££ to do so?

Can your DH ask the owner if the Will directly whether it was them that signed the copy that your DH signed?

Nope not the will maker just a neighbour, who had received it from another neighbour who is a beneficiary so couldn't sign it

So a so called beneficiary of a will has passed the will onto two neighbours to sign without either neighbour even speaking to the will maker?

Wow! Your husband was very silly indeed to sign. How does he know beneficiary neighbour hasn't just forged the will maker's signature?

He needs to speak to the will maker urgently.

This, except that I'm sure the OP's DH genuinely thought he was being a helpful neighbour and it's not a fake post.

Unless you're an actual witness to the signature, you shouldn't sign to say you were. It could easily be a money-grabbing relative with an eye on money/property turning up now that granny is bedbound and possibly not long for this world and effecting a will-change. Sadly this sort of thing comes up from time to time in the threads on the Elderly Parents section of MN or the Dementia UK Forum - a "long-lost" goldenballs sibling, after having little to no input in the care and welfare of their relative, suddenly turning up and persuading their delighted elderly relative into making their will "more fair" to them.

Hopefully not in this case, but if it were my OH I'd certainly be making sure that he informed the solicitors that he didn't witness the actual signing of the will.

Hope all turns out well for the neighbour and their family.

Oh my days. So you DH signed the Will of somebody that you haven't seen since before Covid on the say-so of a neighbour and without actually witnessing the signature?

The Will isn't valid and the signing process needs to start again I'd say.

So elderly neighbour 'drew up a will' with a solicitor.

Gave it to neighbour B who just happens to be the beneficiary of this controversial will.

Beneficiary neighbour gets 2 other neighbours to fraudulently sign to say they had seen elderly neighbour signing it, and paid £200 for that to happen.

Someone needs to check on that elderly neighbour before she gets pushed down the stairs.

And yes, the disinherited son could make a huge fuss and contest the will and your husband and the other signatory might be questioned in court where they would have to admit they had no contact with the will maker and so they had signed fraudulently and the will is therefore invalid.

I would get dh to speak to the actual neighbour and tell them he has changed his mind and can no longer be a witness, hopefully the neighbour will have a copy with the solicitors details, your dh can then contact the solicitor to have his signature removed but make sure there's a paper trail.

Bloody hell. Your DH could be in a whole lot of legal mess here.

Is the other witness (the other neighbour) a beneficiary?

What if this elderly neighbour does not have capacity or has been coerced into signing their will?

What if their signature isn't theirs at all, but a forgery?

If anyone challenges that will then your husband will be expected to stand up and say “yes, I was there when she signed it, I watched her do it and she wasn’t being coerced etc.”

He can’t do that so the will is useless. Or he will lie and get himself in more trouble because the other witness also knows that neither of them saw it being signed.

Why did he sign it? For some stuff, it doesn’t matter really. But for a will which could be challenged because it cuts someone out… that really matters and he fucked up.

Does he remember the name of the solicitor who wrote it up? He needs to contact the solicitor to tell them and ask for his name to be removed and a new copy made up.

This is where it gets more complicated the solicitors are related to one of the neighbours 🙈

This could be fraud. The will is not valid as is and the son could overturn it. The will needs to be re-sent and signed properly. This needs to be explained to the elderly neighbour. I would make it very clear to your DH that he needs to get this resolved or he could be pulled into a whole heap of misery. I say this as someone who was involved in a will dispute.

This has fraud/coercion written all over it.