Why have more than one child with a useless man?

[darkchocolatecoffee]

I keep reading on here threads from women who have 2+ children (eg age 3 and 6 months) who are at breaking point because of the father being lazy and incompetent.

Examples like them doing all the night feeds, early mornings… and still having to do lion share of household chores and childcare when they go back to work.

By living with someone before children you should be able to get a measure of how hands on they will be as a father. But if things really do change and you don’t realise how useless they are until after 1st DC comes along, why continue to carry on having more children until you reach breaking point?!

Not picking at you, honestly, but does none of the reasons actually pop into your head at all?

This thread has highlighted them all. It's sad but accurate. Biological urge is un-ignorable for many women and wanting children pulls the rose-coloured shutters down fast. Some women don't make good choices and either don't realise until it's too late or gloss over the deficiencies for fear of being left and the judgement (from other women) that follows.

Reading that many younger women now are being extremely picky about the partner they choose is probably a sign of the times - cost of living/having children - as much as wanting to hold onto and develop their careers so that they are never in the position of women before them who have sacrificed all to have children.

The stigma of divorce was very strong years ago - now that stigma is (thankfully) no longer there - women are free to get rid of useless men but there is still that hope that they will be a good father and so few of them actually are. My dad was a twat; gambled everything, we had no money and it wasn't until I was 17 that they divorced. Staying together for the sake of the children is still there for many women until they can't avoid the damage being caused any longer.

In my experience DH was great before DC, full on cleaning and being houseproud, would get on with things on his days off without needing any prompting. After DC1 was also great, I did the baby stuff (bf) but he would also do nappies and whatever else needed doing. DC2 pregnancy was the start of a shift as I was more incapacitated and he had to step up over my “share” and after DC2 was born he basically reverted to a teenager. We almost divorced. I was so close to the edge. I developed a give no shits attitude and realised that actually I could do it alone, at which point things did improve as he had it spelled out to him what he would lose.

hes still not back to the pre-DC level of effort, but I’ve lowered my standards a little and don’t cover up his laziness in front of anyone so he tends to be shamed into actually being an adult.

no way would I have thought that he would have changed like this at any point until it actually happened

Thanks for sharing your story @petalsandstars I think this is on similar lines to what some prior posters have said about the step up from 1 to 2 children being what made the issues apparent.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe yes from my point of view my parents had a very unhappy marriage and the stigma of divorce was too great. I’m certainly seeing in my friendship groups now, people are being a lot more selective about picking a partner, choosing to forego having children if they don’t find someone decent enough or go to solo IVF route. Thats why I was surprised in this day and age, people are still going on to have further children when the man has shown himself to be incapable. This will cause further strain in this family unit and the children will be aware. I understand what you are saying re the urge, I have never experienced a strong urge and so am looking at this all very rationally.

I was bullied a forced into it by him and his family. You have no idea what's happening to people so why even try to assume one reason? Just piss off basically

Who is trying to assume one reason? @wearasuitornothing If you read the posts I did say EXCLUDING abuse and I am referring to where there is a CHOICE. Hope that helps.

In some ways it is logical. Let’s suppose the man has just turned out to be slightly inferior, but not absolutely so awful that you need to leave immediately. If I wanted more than one child, it would be easier to have them with one man than to leave and seek a second partner. You can always leave once you are done having children.

Because I wanted two children but would never have added a step parent or blended family to the mix (no judgement on those that do, but for me I'd rather avoid the complication).

I suppose I could have ended it, become a single parent and done solo IVF for a second, but I don't think that would be any easier. Carrying 75% of the load is still less work then doing it 100% solo, plus avoids having to work out co-parenting / contact or any issues from the kids having different dads.

Why do you think that a woman has 'no agency' in the number of children she has and with whom?

A woman always has agency (unless of course she was raped).

I do think a lot of women have what appears to be a nice man pre-baby who makes her cuppas and does the dishes but is shit when babies come along and everything ramps up x100.

But I want to say to these women “if your OH was a lazy fuckwit with baby no 1 don’t have baby no 2 - in fact don’t even shag him - until he shows real change”.

I don’t know how they can have sex with these men. I’d get the massive ick if my OH made a fuss changing a nappy or mopping the floor. It’s so unattractive

Yes agreed re your point on agency. I guess the lines get blurred if the person is facing extreme religious or cultural pressure, experiencing financial/psychological/physical abuse and things like that.

Still I do think some people who say ‘why are you blaming the woman’ are missing the point. Of course men are responsible but let’s not pretend that ALL women don’t have agency and choice when it comes to choosing who to have a child with. That’s incredibly patronising towards women because it implies they are not able to make decisions for themselves (this isn’t directed towards you by the way)

@YaMuvva i know. My friend who does have a hands on partner found it so shocking that many men in her NCT class never changed nappies or made a fuss when asked. Nothing more attractive than a man who steps up!!

Because people stay with these crap men. If they didn't and crap men stayed single because no woman would go near them they would soon realise they have to change and be better to be with someone or decide they will be single forever.

Cultural or religious reasons mean women stay - never underestimate peer pressure.

not knowing any better - seeing the woman’s own mother being treated like a slave and thinking that’s normal

maybe getting together young and both being young and daft until baby arrives and mum grows up and dad doesn’t. ‘maybe there’s an ‘Accidental’ pregnancy
maybe mum is uneducated and financially can’t leave so she stays and makes the best of it

There’s lots of reasons

Sadly there are some who seem desperate to be in a 'relationship' no matter how useless the bloke is, as if being with a feckless loser is somehow preferable to being on your own. I never have and never will understand it.

I agree.

I have also known of women who moved out of one relationship with a loser to another and had a series of children with different men, none of whom pulled their weight when it came to maintenance payments.

Most people are on their 'best behaviour' at the start of a relationship. The 'real' person often doesn't emerge until you're well intrenched, emotionally, practically, financially.

Plus, I think women are biologically programmed to stay and try to make it work (just like we do with our children. We don't just ditch them after a few difficult years). Men, on the other hand, maybe aren't.

agreed.

I’m going to be giving the relationship board a miss for a while. It’s too irritating reading about useless DH’s and people tolerating it because this is what we should expect

I can’t answer for everyone but for me, I was young (18 when I met him to his nearly 30) and I loved him. It seemed natural to want to have babies with him even though he was useless, selfish and ultimately abusive.

If we all thought these things through sensibly useless bastard men would have died out by now as no one would be shagging them and having their babies. But people often aren’t like this and that’s that.

I wonder the same thing @darkchocolatecoffee

I never knew there were so many deadbeat men until I read people’s stories on Mumsnet- it almost seems normal!

Hard to comprehend why someone whose partner has already failed to be a source of support after one child would choose to have several more children with them. Especially when they say they have 3 or 4 children, I just think “why?”

Also to add, I got into a relationship with my useless, selfish abuser because I didn’t know any better. I stayed so long because I didn’t know I deserved better. And because I kidded myself for a while my children were fine.

I agree with this. I only had one with my ex as we split when he was a baby but I can see how life could be better for my oldest with a full sibling close in age.

This seems to illustrate a pattern of lack of self esteem among women.

(And before anyone jumps on me, this is not the fault of the women concerned)

It seems to me that if a man has self-respect and career ambition, he is to be admired, If a woman has the same qualities she's regarded as a 'ballbreaker' 🤔

I’m worried about a relative without children yet in a long term relationship.
She does all the cooking, cleaning, laundry, shopping, gardening and had 3 jobs, 2 part time one full time.
Her partner has one 9-4pm wfh job and does absolutely fuck all else.

She wants children.

When I asked about the balance of work (they own a house together so it’s his house too) the reply was that she “loves cleaning” so is happy to do it all.
That was her answer and her mothers answer with a bright and breezy smile….
Her mum was a housewife until they hit financial ruin when she had to get a job AND was expected to do all of the housewife work too and was a raging bull with anger about it so knows what it entails with kids in the mix too.

Her house and garden are spotless and like out of a magazine.

I don’t want the life that’s on the cards for her doing it all. It’s like they just don’t see it, blind to it almost.

But, none of my business of course.

I would be worried about a friend in this situation too but nothing more you can do. Such a shame even her mother is enabling his behaviour and it’s almost certain he will continue his entitled behaviour after children & childcare will be added to her list of sole responsibilities.

Because some people have zero self esteem, are just naive or plain stupid, they ignore all the red flags. Having children can be a curse, they turn your life upside down no matter how privileged and prepared you are, so unless both parents are on the same page one will always bear the brunt of the burden.