Why have more than one child with a useless man?

[darkchocolatecoffee]

I keep reading on here threads from women who have 2+ children (eg age 3 and 6 months) who are at breaking point because of the father being lazy and incompetent.

Examples like them doing all the night feeds, early mornings… and still having to do lion share of household chores and childcare when they go back to work.

By living with someone before children you should be able to get a measure of how hands on they will be as a father. But if things really do change and you don’t realise how useless they are until after 1st DC comes along, why continue to carry on having more children until you reach breaking point?!

I'm curious about this as well. 🤔

There seems to be pages of examples on the 'relationship' board.

I know someone who had 5 with hers. Constantly moaned about how rubbish he was with them, didn’t do anything for them or around the house, didn’t take them to activities it was all up to her.

However the frustrating thing is she thought he would have a major personality change when they split up and he would suddenly start doing stuff. He didn’t, always getting out of his contact time, tried to have it in the family home as ‘there’s food there’, kids never wanted to go round to his because it was rubbish there.

Because most women who want to be mothers want more than once dc.

It's very difficult to find someone else to have another baby with especially if you are older/have no childcare. That's not even considering all the difficulties there can be with blended families.

A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.

Some men change over time.

If the threads on here are anything to go by there's an awful lot of them who have shown they were a poor partner and uninvolved father at the first child, but some women will overlook his poor behaviour if it means having another baby, or giving their child a sibling, or think that having another baby will make him grow up.

A number of these women also might not have very good blueprints about healthy relationships and what an engaged father should be. If someone's life experience is women settling with rubbish partners, having babies, and tolerating overgrown man children being useless partners/parents, they're likely to repeat that pattern.

Well it's not always as easy as it sounds. My BIL was the 'perfect' partner and father. He would share the feeds, housework, you name it. Couldn't do enough for my sister or their children; was very much part of the family with our parents etc. Then, when their youngest (of 3) was a year old, he decided that he'd rather shag a 19 year old. Left my sister, continually let her and the children down in every way. Refused to pay maintenance, would 'forget' when he was due to have the children and basically switched personalities. He is no longer with 19 year old (as she kicked him out) and it worse than ever.

They get hung up with having 2 children with the same man,
Want a second child
Hold onto the hope he'll 'change'
Finances
Lots of different reasons

I think it's easy to be on the outside looking in to have reasonable opinions on someone else's situation when you're not living it.

I think it can be a pragmatic choice. If he changed after the first one but is bearable and not abusive, and you know you'll split up eventually but want more than one child, it makes sense to keep age gaps smaller, only have one other parent to deal with, and for your children to be full siblings.

The alternative is the unknown of trying to find someone new, time wasted (important if you've left having children later), issues with blended families, custody arrangements, and all of this having a massive impact on your existing child.

Plus there is the reality that there are very few men out there that actually would be significantly better than the current partner in most circumstances. Personally, I know so few men whose wives/partners aren't moaning about their lack of contribution to the daily grind that I barely believe they exist.

The COL also means many couples simply cannot afford to split up, and are making the best of things for the sake of their children's quality of life and stability. In those circumstances a second child with someone else is just not going to happen unless a random wealthy man appears and is happy to subsidise everything.

Many people want more than one child, for various reasons, and although stopping at one is getting more common there is an element of biological drive going on. And if you've already got most of the equipment, a 'good enough' situation and you can't change your circumstances I can absolutely see why it happens.

It might not be ideal, but it's some people's reality. It's not always as easy and problem free to 'LTB' as many mumsnetters seem to think, and for many it's a case of better the devil you know.

Because they want a sibling for their child who has the same father and is close in age?

Because it's hard being a single parent to young children.

Because society/ patriarchy is set up to make it hard for women to leave. Just look at how easy it is for fathers to get away with not paying child support.

Because they hope their husband will grow and change...in the same way they are growing and changing as mothers.

Because everything was fine when we only had one child, he left because another woman showed him more attention than I did ( according to him) and he needed to be ‘special’ I bet she listened more, she had fairly grown up children, I had two little ones to look after.

We had a very typical history. Two hard working professionals, previous relationships, met and married late twenties, financially stable, bought and renovated our own house, decent holidays, great circle of friends and two much wanted children.

I don't know what else I could have done to minimise the risk of him leaving me to single parenthood. His shift pattern meant he and his OW could meet after work (10.00pm), whilst I was at home with a one year old and three year old. His shift pattern meant that he could go clubbing on a Thursday night, at the start of his ‘weekend’, whilst Friday morning, I had to go to my teaching job, leaving home at 7.00am.
He decided ‘family life is not for me’.

You are of course presuming that a woman always has a choice and agency in this matter.

@ArlaJay I’m sorry that happened to you. I meant more of the situation where the man is showing clear red flags after the first child and not pulling his weight and demonstrating he is one of those men who likes the IDEA of having children but without the drudgery of it. And then the partner has multiple more children with him knowing this and then inevitably will often reach a breaking point and then feel more trapped and unable to leave (I saw some threads recently on relationship board which got me thinking about this)

That last part is so, so true. I see women mature into mothers, putting in time, effort and massive amounts of research and exploration into what this means to them, and how they will approach it. A huge paradigm shift. It feels like most mothers have it. I don't see many men doing the same, and yet I do see women hoping they will, and how unfathomable it seems that men don't.

However, the fathers I know of that did go on more of a journey around fatherhood weren't immune from also being shit husbands. At first they seemed enviable. Turns out they just put a good act on in public and still cheated and lied when it suited them.

I think women are affected at a more fundamental emotional level by becoming a parent. Unsurprising, given the biology of it, but this becomes a primary tool in our oppression. Because women know if they don't step up and parent the impact on their child is huge, and they, in the vast majority of cases, care deeply about that child. Whereas for most men it has a more optional, dip in and out type of feeling. They know the buck doesn't stop with them.

Because of this cultural difference between men and women, women know that as much as we might want it to be equal and fair, it isn't. So we just have to have hope that it could be, and that the man we love will be different or better / will live up to his word / will realise what we're trying to say. And will do it for the love of his children, which we assume is the same as our love for them. Perhaps it isn't.

Yes I believe I implied this in my previous posts that I am talking about situations where there is a choice and have also specified I am not talking about abuse, religious pressure situations etc.

The answer is usually low self esteem.

Because having 1 kid with a useless man is doable, 2 kids is a nightmare. The first year of no 2 requires the man to step up and parent the older one, you as a mother with a newborn simply cannot be in 2 places at once. When you have 1 baby you as the mother can nap when the baby naps, be in the baby bubble with lack of sleep etc. When you have 2 the older one is awake during nap time, still has to be dropped at nursery, has activities and needs etc. You really need a second pair of hands at that point.

So the man - who still has a lot of freedom after 1 baby, is now really required to step up. And lots don’t. I don’t think it’s surprising that women hope / expect that change will happen, as it did for them with no 1.

Let's not forget social conditioning... the mother who "does it all" is an acceptable and familiar concept; the father who "does it all" is a saintly unicorn.

I think this subconsciously influences many people to accept situations which are logically inexcusable.

For some women I know, it was religion. A powerful brainwashing technique, basically!

Low self esteem, feeling that this relationship is what they deserve, poor childhood, growing up in a DV household ... surely it's not rocket science?

Many people are not self aware enough to understand the reasoning behind the decisions they make.
Many people live in chaos and swing from one crisis to another on constant survival mode.

Very good post.

Also when these women seek advice what they hear is 'nobody's perfect', 'count your blessings', 'it's probably not as bad as you make it', 'you get back what you put in', etc.

Life really isn't as black and white as you make it OP, but it's easy to judge I guess.

We all make mistakes. Sometimes we can't see what is right under our noses.

My ex started bullying me when ds was 3 days old, we were still in hospital, but I didn't leave him for another two years. I should have bailed out then, and got a taxi home. But I did stop at one.

I don't judge -women are under so much pressure. 😟

Well done for getting out @Meadowfinch
But who gives birth and is immediately ready to make a life changing decision that goes against everything they've hoped and planned for for months? Give yourself a break 🌺

Some women just do not see how abusive their partner is because they were raised in that kind of environment. They may have low self esteem and a lack of confidence.

I think women also think they can "fix" a man. All he needs is the love of a hood woman and he'll miraculously change.

Personally, I think there should be much more education of young girls so they understand how important it is to pick a caring supportive partner. It's the most important decision they'll ever make.

Yes well done @Meadowfinch for getting out. I do honestly believe that have children however strong you think the relationship is can put pressure on it and bring out a different unknown side to the partner that could not have always been envisaged.

after reading many of the posts on the relationship’ board I think I was shocked to see so many with 2 or more children where the partner has always been useless but they are now feeling the strain. My own parents had a very unbalanced relationship in that way and it made for a strained and tense atmosphere growing up.

I agree @PinotPony

Because my parents raised me to have no sense of my self. That was an invisible cause. I couldn't understand what had gone wrong until much later. I've had therapy, broke the cycle, I pay taxes, I provide for my kids. Damage can be done to kids f4om married parents. Oh believe it.