Have you ever come across munchausens by proxy?

[Namechangeone]

As per my username I’ve name changed. It’s quite an identifying situation so I’m not going to go into too much detail but don’t want to drip feed either

Edited for clarity: Has anyone experienced munchausen by proxy themselves or known someone that has? I could be wrong about this but it's what myself and others suspect.

Im middle child of 5. Us older 3 lived with grandparents, youngest 2 with parents.

I unfortunately have had quite bad luck when it comes to health. Various ICU stays, operations, long term conditions. No empathy from my parents and now grandparents unfortunately have died.

My younger brother who grew up with my parents has perfect health, had many scans after our mum claiming my brother can't barely walk/has back pain/stomach pain all sorts. Had every test going from teens until now (he is late 20s). Even went as far as paying for private tests because they didn't believe nhs consultants.
They've bought him a wheelchair/crutches for when things are bad - this typically happens when I've just had a hospital stay or there's an event coming up.
In privacy he walks around at home normal. He lives next door in a house they built for him but stays at parents house.

Recently they took him to A&E saying he needed emergency surgery as he's suddenly paralysed - scans were clear. This was day 1 after myself being diagnosed with lymphoma.

He has had every scan going that you can think of and multiple opinions. Also my brother and parents have been offered psychiatric support many times (and declined)

At home he doesn't need to even take paracetamol but if there is an event, he's in agony and needs pain relief and looking after. Apparently can't take tablets so it's calpol 🤦‍♀️
They have a prayer WhatsApp group for him & regular social media posts.

Im not envious of the lack of empathy I have - I'm quite happy in my own bubble & I wouldn't want to live this fake life. I had a good childhood with my grandparents, although miss my gran especially a lot with everything going on in my personal life.
I do have therapy/counselling etc & continue to throughout the years.

Everything had gone back to "normal" with them all but my brother is getting married in a couple of weeks and the wheelchair etc is back out. This happened after the A&E visit one day after my lymphoma diagnosis.
I can't get my head around it all.

I just basically wondered has anyone else had this experience or similar with a family member?

95% of the time it doesn't bother me, I have my own life, but then I do get times where it bothers me (like tonight for some reason!)

Sounds like your mum did it for her own crazy reasons and it’s left your brother in a situation where he feels incompetent and dependent so needs the ailments to keep him out of work. He exaggerates and plays along because it would otherwise be quite difficult to a)reconcile what his mum has done b) he probably feels helpless a lot of the time and it’s easier to play his role than it is to detach from it. The consequences of detaching is basically admitting that it’s all bollocks and thats the type of people they are and that he possibly could get a job but thats really hard to do when you have been cast a victim all your life. I imagine he took a lot of time off school and your mum never encouraged him to study or work? She’s done a right number on your brother, she’s basically made his world tiny.

I’m really sorry for your diagnosis OP and what your mother said about you is vile. My mother loathed me, it leaves you scarred but usually there’s something really very wrong with them. My mother appeared to have health anxiety (a therapist I know suggested possibly a personality disorder) , I think she convinced herself of many illnesses because she doesn’t have a stable sense of self. Usually it was a mimic of someone elses illness (it’s really strange how many people in my family don’t seem to notice). These people need so much from other people because theres a lot of emptiness in there.
.

Yes the comment was rough.

It does sound like there is co-dependency. But who decides it's 'flare time' do you think, him, or her, or both?
Does he communicate with the Whats app prayer group? (I did boggle at it TBH)
I assume she gets on with his fiancee. Is the fiancee working?

Please don't answer any of those questions if it's too nosy of me!

I do wonder about the relationship between your mother and hers, as you said apart from raising the older three of you, she was very vocal about your brother, and it sounds like a very painful dynamic for everyone.

When I found out I immediately complained - then a further SAR cited my ‘serial complaints’ (it was one and with good reason !) were also red flags and attention seeking behaviour and added further fuel to the FII fire of allegations so parents displaying genuine needs are then further down in the hole of suspicion of they try to defend themselves it’s awful

And if you ask for an independent or second opinion it’s a red flag for ‘doctor shopping ‘

I’m happy to answer, it’s not nosy, I understand there needs to be context.

It was always my mum pushing the health problems and endless appointments but recently it’s been my brother. It’s like a jealousy thing that I’m unwell, it’s weird.

Himself and his fiancée haven’t been together long - it’s more of an arranged thing through the church and parents. I won’t say much more on that. They aren’t local so have to take things at face value.

My DD came home today with a leaflet with a go fund me for ramps for the wedding venue (surely they’d have some?) and to continue to spread the Lord’s gospel. It just gets more bizarre as the years go on.

Yes he is just as much vocal as my mum on these groups. I don’t have them on social media but I’m told there’s often “check ins” put up on Facebook of various hospitals/departments.

Not sure if I’ve said too much here for someone to recognise but hopefully it makes more sense.
Im the only daughter, siblings are boys so it doesn’t seem to affect them as much.

I have moments just dad and I and he feels to trapped and deflated 😔

My mum/brother have second opinions, hospital shop then spend money privately.

Thousands spent privately for investigative surgeries & a lot of nhs money on appointments, blood tests, scans.

All of the red flags can also be due to parents trying to get answers / support

Yep! It's an impossible situation. Complaints, push backs and FOI requests are also red flags. Again though, look at those with proven MPB and other forms of abuse, and you'll find they also do this!

It's why I feel strongly parents accused should be able to be swiftly evaluated for MBP by medical professionals, not 'diagnosed' by the assumptions of medically unqualified people working off tick boxes alone.

When I look back now with al the knowledge I've built up, Ds had an entirely obvious ASD profile. It took under an hour for GOSH to say that while diagnosis would take more time, I was absolutely correct to bring him to them.

Have you looked into FND OP? That said this does seem to be driven by your parents which doesn't really fit.

Well, they do say God works in mysterious ways!

The ramps is a bit telling. Venue might not have them but a copy and paste from Roll ramps website: https://www.rollaramp.co.uk/hire-wheelchair-ramps/
Need a ramp for your wedding or party? Did you know that the venue is required by law to provide disabled access. You shouldn't have to fund it yourself.
(I believe this includes heaven btw if he's hoping to 'go fund me' for that too!)

I wonder if it's jealousy, or a sense of a threat of being eclipsed?

Also if he's claiming benefits and has claimed he's unable to walk without aids/ needs a wheelchair, then Facebook etc photos all over the place with him walking down the aisle would be a short cut to being investigated for fraud.

I wonder if your mum prefers the fabricated illness of your brothers because she can control it. Whereas she doesn't have control over you or your illness.

Although I suspect the MBP is just one of many issues that your mum has. Many women manage to have careers without shipping their kids off to grandparents.

I think there is probably a lot going on and the MBP is just one of the ways it's manifesting.

I don't think you'll necessarily get an answer to this. I think you just need to focus on yourself and look after yourself xxx

I totally agree. There needs to be quick and decisive action in these cases to 1) identify true MSBP and protect children and 2) to quickly rule out MSBP and protect families from being ripped apart

@blueparrotsinagreenhouse I completely understand your point about it being red flags for mid diagnosis but my brother himself says he’s an easy life. To me it makes a mockery of those that do struggle with getting conditions diagnosed for their child/themself.

@Hairyfairy01 I’ve a friend who unfortunately suffers quite bad with FND, they get bad stroke symptoms and now even seizures that are unpredictable 😔 I try and support her as much as possible.

@Elleherd the lord does indeed! I haven’t looked properly at this leaflet yet. They had a successful “go fund me” at the time of my marriage (failed), for a wet room to be installed and a massive amount of money was raised 💰

@tiredandabitfat it could well be. Normally I manage okay but I’m quite emotional with my own things. I’m having more regular therapy so I’ve a “toolbox” to help with the wedding day. After that I can lessen contact a lot more and hopefully be able to decompartmentalise from the situation and focus on my own health and well-being 😃

It’s a bit late on to add to the post but I’m happy to be wrong in saying that it’s MBP.
Im obviously not a trained psychologist or in that field.
I am just going by a term that was mentioned many years ago by a professional - hence why I didn’t know it was now known as something else.

I don’t think an undiscovered medical complaint that your family are struggling to have taken seriously would flare so badly whenever you are ill or there’s a family event.

Don’t doubt yourself. It isn’t the same situation others have endured, being denied support and accused of manufacturing their child’s symptoms. You aren’t in a position of power to obtain support or diagnosis for them. You are allowed to notice what you notice and interpret that in a way that makes sense to you.

You know your answer is self care and distance. 💐

I totally understand and it must be very difficult for you. I just wanted to highlight how the red flags can be misinterpreted as well, it’s a really really horrible situation all
round it’s a terrible thing if it’s genuine and a terrible thing to be wrongly accused 😔

Any adult being offered pain meds and insisting on calpol is dubious imo.

You obviously don’t have much of a relationship with him or your parents. So very hard to know if it’s genuine or not. I’m sorry about your diagnosis and that you’re not getting any support from your parents.

I wonder sometimes if this syndrome is there for medics who do not understand a disease. There are many diabolical neurological diseases that even medic do not fully understand, and your brother could well have one of them. I do not think hospitals are humouring him to such a great extent. There are many thousands of sufferers around the world who have been diagnosed with neurological conditions - inflammation of the central nervous system, for example, which cause a person to suddenly be unable to walk, and need a wheelchair.

It sometimes takes years to be free of disease, and even then, it comes back again. Some nervous diseases - and I don't mean psychiatric diseases - affect the nerves to the muscles to the heart and lungs, causing people to die without warning. An inflamed nerve to the leg muscles can shorten the calf muscle, pulling the person off balance. Wherever a nerve is inflamed, it will affect the muscle it serves and the organ that muscle relies on, and still return to something 'normal' without warning. If a hospital recognises there is a neurological condition, it will do scans and tests over again to rule out other areas.
There are people who suffer from Munchausen's Syndrome, and those who project that on to others remotely (or not). They are very dangerous people, yet the medical profession is far more able to know now than they once were.

I have a great relationship with my dad as I’ve written in some of my PP. It’s a very hard situation for him.

My brother I try and have a relationship with and he knows I’m here - that’s what’s important.

Yes, you’re correct though I don’t have a relationship with my mum - despite me constantly trying (and regretting because of the hurt that follows).

I can totally see how it can come across ungenuine.

Yes. Have come across it with an acquaintance. Doctors suspected but have to be so careful. It’s horrible to witness.

What I meant was that with some illnesses it’s very hard for others to understand and only the ones living with them know what they’re going through, and even then it can be hard for them to accept it. What does your dad think?

My dad has the same opinion as me and others, he’s encouraged the psych help offered to my mum/his wife & my brother.

It’s really tricky but he’s trapped inside the situation with different factors. Religion/coercive control. He will never leave and it breaks me that such a good man is living the life he does. A lot of his hard earned money is used for these private investigations too (joint bank accounts, he’s the main earner).

Unfortunately much more said is identifiable, probably is already from what I’ve posted.
The situation with my dad is a whole different subject and part of the puzzle - others have tried to help there too.

It is, I empathised for years with my mum but after declining all the help I feel defeated by it 😔
Whole mixture of emotions. The day I posted this I felt angry, today I have too much going on in my personal life to take much thought about it.
Other days I feel sorry for them that that’s what their life is like.
It’s a rollercoaster and I can’t let it take over my life so much.

Hey OP. I think in your case the way your parents behave in general and how you feel about them and their treatment of you is definitely enough to distance -: especially when you are dealing with so much yourself. It must be really hurtful.

This is a general point to raise awareness and may not be the case in your situation but reading some posts I really want to highlight my situation and so many like us. I have an horrendous condition called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome. I also have a multitude of autoimmune conditions. There are so many of us trying to survive with this and some do and have considered euthenasia. Symptoms are so weird and bizarre as our collagen is defective. Some people have minimal problems, others can't even hold their head up. Scans ordered by NHS doctors are always normal. We can have weird random, changeable symptoms and can use wheelchairs intermittently. Stress can make one day then times worse than another. I myself have had every condition including this diagnosed privately, because we are often told nothing is going on. Most of us have to because NHS doctors know nothing about it. Women are regularly accused of having psychiatric problems when they are seriously ill. For many of us, our bowels stop working. Many are then accused of an eating disorder. This digestive motility defect does not show on scans. Parents have also been accused of hurting their kids because in EDS (: highly heritable) we bruise very easily.

I imagine a huge proportion of women accused of Munchausen or MBP are genuine medical cases.

Gaslighting is on the rise in the medical profession. I'm a part of so many groups where women with clear diagnosed problems are still being accused of imagining things. The programme Take Care of Maya on Netflix gives an excellent portrayal of how badly the medical profession can behave.

No other family members have any of my issues either btw.

I don't know about your brother and his condition - whatever it is. But the above I feel is important. Your scan is normal means absolutely nothing to so many people. When I paid for a vascular scan - something the NHS never did despite so many complaints - a multitude of significant issues were identified.

Sorry for going off on a tangent. Hope things work out ok for you lovely ♥️