Have you ever come across munchausens by proxy?

[Namechangeone]

As per my username I’ve name changed. It’s quite an identifying situation so I’m not going to go into too much detail but don’t want to drip feed either

Edited for clarity: Has anyone experienced munchausen by proxy themselves or known someone that has? I could be wrong about this but it's what myself and others suspect.

Im middle child of 5. Us older 3 lived with grandparents, youngest 2 with parents.

I unfortunately have had quite bad luck when it comes to health. Various ICU stays, operations, long term conditions. No empathy from my parents and now grandparents unfortunately have died.

My younger brother who grew up with my parents has perfect health, had many scans after our mum claiming my brother can't barely walk/has back pain/stomach pain all sorts. Had every test going from teens until now (he is late 20s). Even went as far as paying for private tests because they didn't believe nhs consultants.
They've bought him a wheelchair/crutches for when things are bad - this typically happens when I've just had a hospital stay or there's an event coming up.
In privacy he walks around at home normal. He lives next door in a house they built for him but stays at parents house.

Recently they took him to A&E saying he needed emergency surgery as he's suddenly paralysed - scans were clear. This was day 1 after myself being diagnosed with lymphoma.

He has had every scan going that you can think of and multiple opinions. Also my brother and parents have been offered psychiatric support many times (and declined)

At home he doesn't need to even take paracetamol but if there is an event, he's in agony and needs pain relief and looking after. Apparently can't take tablets so it's calpol 🤦‍♀️
They have a prayer WhatsApp group for him & regular social media posts.

Im not envious of the lack of empathy I have - I'm quite happy in my own bubble & I wouldn't want to live this fake life. I had a good childhood with my grandparents, although miss my gran especially a lot with everything going on in my personal life.
I do have therapy/counselling etc & continue to throughout the years.

Everything had gone back to "normal" with them all but my brother is getting married in a couple of weeks and the wheelchair etc is back out. This happened after the A&E visit one day after my lymphoma diagnosis.
I can't get my head around it all.

I just basically wondered has anyone else had this experience or similar with a family member?

95% of the time it doesn't bother me, I have my own life, but then I do get times where it bothers me (like tonight for some reason!)

If you mean that your brother is feigning illness to get attention, if this is Munchausens (which is now called fabricated or induced illness). This is him fabricating the illness if I am reading it correctly, not anyone else making him look like he's ill.
It may be that whoever is instigating the illness has a great deal of childhood trauma. This is what is generally understood from the condition, not being an expert though its hard to say

I could be completely wrong, I’m not an expert etc, growing up though professionals, family members called it MBP, I hadn’t really looked into it too much to know the name had changed before making this post admittedly.

This latest “episode” (sorry I don’t know what to call it) could’ve been spurred on by our mum or himself. They’re both vocal in the WhatsApp prayer group and go fund me etc.

I think I came across it with a parent in a school I work at but we didn't have proof.

Sounds more like a benefits scam than munchausen-by-proxy.

Munchausens people live by constant attention and feeling special/saints from it.

Your brother doesn't even the make the effort to appear unwell, when parents are not around.

You may be more shocked by how much they can and are claiming for him, probably being his carers as well.

They had 5 children and gave the eldest 3 away.

Your parents don't sound minted - I would think money/benefits is a big incentive.

Yes this is apparently an incentive - when I was accused of FII it was alleged it was for attention and financial gain. In one letter between school and another agency they speculated was I misappropriating funds amongst other things . Luckily I had receipts for everything, I had invoices For therapy sessions, proof of clubs attended (they also said I wasn’t allowing socialisation but I was able to disprove that). I was told afterwards by our consultant that it’s common for some people to exaggerate to gain higher rates of benefits and we had unfortunately been caught up in it all when we hadn’t done a thing wrong

Like you I understood op post perfectly. I really don't understand people saying they don't 🤷xx

So sorry that you are going through all this, and still having to worry about your brother. I hope your older siblings are supporting you too.

1. What do they think?
2. Is he your full sibling? He may be experiencing transferred symptoms from you? It is fairly rare but it does happen.
3. Are your parents feeling guilty about their lack of empathy for you, and subconsciously transferring their feelings for you to him?
4. Or are they just jealous and trying to take attention back to themselves? Be wary that when your brother gets married, they may start on sibling 5. It is child abuse.

You say he is unaware that he is NOT ill, but years of conditioning may well be the cause, and that is, I believe a symptom. Do you share a GP? If so worth telling them. Do you tell them when you are ill? Are you seeking their sympathy/help? Perhaps time to realise it is not going to happen, and simply not let them know.

I have had quite a bit of experience with it, although this is simply Munchausens, not Munchausens by Proxy. The "by proxy" happens when a person makes another person ill (usually a child), and garners attention by being the angelic caretaker. There is a lot of confusion about the two.

It DOES sound like Munchausens, although it is simply from your observations, and would need to be properly diagnosed by a mental health professional, which seems unlikely to happen, since your parents support and enable this behavior. After his marriage, perhaps his bride might step up, but then....she's marrying him knowing (or buying into) all of this.

Have you discussed this with your therapist? NOT for him, but to work out your own reaction to it? If not, I'd suggest doing so. You can't fix him, so save yourself, so to speak.

1. My other siblings are all male, they don’t really have much of an opinion of involvement as such. The ones with no children of their own are NC.

2. Yes full sibling, I’m the only one (and only female) that mum has said never felt onditipnal love, or any love, for myself.

3. Mum has no empathy regarding any situation, medical or not, that has happened in my life.
   Dad has always been supportive although has to be secretive about it.

4. Sibling has been married before, ended upper quick, massive factor was the illness and attention wanted by mum/brother.

Yes we have same surgery but not same GP anymore. Every time I had a new diagnosis they would be there straightening asking for testing saying it could be hereditary (endometriosis definitely wouldn’t affect my brother 😂)

I don’t really share anything with them now, things they find out are normally through mutual friends or family. I told them my lymphoma diagnosis myself as I didn’t want an argument from being made to feel guilty not telling them.

My therapist is really good but it’s a long journey, and lots of areas in my life to improve.
I’m not perfect myself.
I have in temper called them out on it when it’s easier just to not get involved.

Unfortunately becoming eligible for financial assistance IS a red flag for Fil as well as a 'green' flag for genuine disability.

Being accused meant after Ds was diagnosed and later needed additional help I couldn't afford, he point blank refused to access DLA. Having been told earlier SS didn't believe he was getting injured by other children bullying him over his differences, and his Mum must be doing it, left him feeling everything and anything he ever said could be used against him or me.
I briefly tried to persuade him it wouldn't cause issues, but gave up.

I'm physically disabled and didn't claim DLA or later PIP, and refused carers services until many years later when things reached the point I simply couldn't continue to work if I didn't run the gauntlet of accepting help. It's just one part of what it did to us.

@Namechangeone
It’s a rollercoaster and I can’t let it take over my life so much.

I think that is the most important part of it.

Whether there's a genuine mystery illness, underlying truths, coming to believe something planted, or knowing malingering, or various overlaps, there's an unhealthy co-dependant relationship with mum, and lots of drama and need for attention and money from others.
It's an emotional roller coaster, constantly magnifying your mothers neglect of you, and evidently hitting at least some of it's peaks whenever you are unwell.
It just has to be so damaging for you, even at the best of times.

It really is.
I lustrate myself that at my age I’m constantly looking for mum’s approval or to be told she’s proud of me. I wish I didn’t keep putting myself in that position.

It has taught me how to mum that is loving and not have the traits that I’ve experienced.

All I can do is focus on myself & DC, my health and the grief from losing my gran (who was more a mum to me that anyone else).
I’ve every faith I’ll reach a good place one day 😊

Pantaloons99 · Yesterday 21:37

I do so agree with you. There are so many diseases now of the immune type and neurological conditions, which have actually been waiting a very long time for someone to recognise them and write a paper on them.

Remember, at one time asthma was considered psychosomatic and all deaths could have been avoided if the sufferer had not allowed their difficulty to get so far, and it is not such a long time ago either. It goes with: babies cannot respond to people for weeks, it is all wind!!!

ChanelNo19EDT · 31/03/2024 14:42

I wasn't allowed to be ill either, but I did have some very serious conditions. I remember - a long time ago - that I was sent home with a high temperature and went to bed. Ages later my mother came in and said: you are not lying in bed. If there is something wrong with you, go to the doctor, which I did, and he said he couldn't find anything wrong with me, but as I had been sent home and had been sick several times, he will send me to hospital. 'Go home and wait for the ambulance'. I got off the bus, walked up a steep hill, just got inside before collapsing, unable to walk to the ambulance when it came because my appendix burst and I was told I was very unreasonable, that I ''must have been in pain for days and waited until it got so bad and burst''. I spent a month in hospital.

You just have to be so careful. I had peritonitis which had gone unnoticed because the classic symptom - rigid tummy - was absent and my tummy was flabby.

MarionMarion · 31/03/2024 13:34

I absolutely agree with you. The medical profession are discovering so many diseases which used to be classed as mental illness that I think the MBP is beginning to become as rare as the diseases the medics could not diagnose. We know so little about the central nervous system, but if it were possible to repair nerves, they would be no paraplegics. Now wouldn't that be nice, and when everything is completely curable, then people can fall back on MBP.

I have known a parent who did that. Her boy was in the same judo class as my own children (now 36 and 38). She told every other parent her son had a condition, that he vomited "all the time" and so needed her to stay close to him. I never saw the boy puking, but sometimes she would run on the tatami (this is an absolute no-no), rearrange his kimono, pat him on the head, talk to him. Then told us other parents she tought he was going to puke, poor child. And he was like that all the time, often had to get him from school etc. I was absolutely convinced there was nothing wrong with her child, god knows how she treated him at home? Fast-forward to today : I see the mother in a local supermarket. She asks about my children - who both are fine, thank you - and ask about her son. She tells me he doesn't want to see her ever again, other people have told her he lives in another town, is married and has a child. I didn't need more confirmation. And yes, now I wish i had intervened all those years ago.

Well, if you read the thread correctly and completely you’d understand that op is referring to Sibling and not Son

That’s awful

She clearly says it's her brother.
Sorry if I haven't read all the comments yet

I have come across this in a work situation in a small MH unit I used to work in. Anecdotally from other staff there has been cases previously but this is the one I had experience of.
The D was brought in as a patient, though there was nothing wrong with her but the reason was to try to work with the family. Family consisted of mother and two daughters in their 40s.
One lived at home, one independent.
The D had been constantly at GPs and admitted to hospital for invasive investigations, as they have to try to get to the bottom of symptoms, or reported symptoms. The M would not be convinced there was nothing wrong with her D and referral to MH was done eventually in a back door kind of way as a last resort I think. The D was quite a simple woman, but had been mentally affected all her life and brainwashed is the only way I can describe it. The daughter genuinely believed everything her M said and thought there was something physically wrong and the doctors had been rubbish because they couldn't do their job etc...
They obviously had a codependent relationship of some sort. The independent D knew what was going on and had almost got to the point of washing her hands of the whole situation.
The psychologist had meetings with the M who was reluctant to engage but as I remember, there was a bit of a white lie to try to help the D when everyone knew it was the M who had MSBP, as it was then known.
The bottom line was, nothing changed, the D, though mentally harmed by her M was not being physically harmed and had mental capacity. It would have been very hard to make a legal case to separate them and do anything at all about it long term. Though in one of the anecdotal cases a much younger male and his M had been separated legally through a court as the harm was greater and could be proved.
As you know already, the problem here is your M, in my opinion nothing will change and your B obviously is coerced and perhaps brainwashed. I would even say he has taken on board there is financial gain here for himself at times, though this borders on fraud but how would the police prove it? I think you have to do what the siblings did in the case I knew of and just leave them to their strange behaviour, it won't have gone undocumented on his health notes.
I'm just sorry you have such a mother who has ruined the lives of some of her children, you and your brother. It's just sad for outsiders to hear and see.
As you seem to realise, you aren't going to get the love you deserve but there's obviously been a lot of history with M.
Hold onto the memory of your dear GM and I'm so sorry she doesn't give you the support you should have with your real health conditions 💐

Another podcast you might find helpful is this one about a woman who constantly reinvented herself in new communities with new illnesses each time. It's called Sympathy Pains.

https://open.spotify.com/show/0TfqAiRqjvmOR1jLILb5kL?si=P00NX_58Q_ioJlLLTFTzMA

Hello
My grandmother has this- by proxy and not.
when my mum was small, my gran would exaggerate and completely make up problems to get attention, even says mum was almost in a diabetic com as a kid ( due to stress )- mum was a twin ( all lies)
has always exaggerated my uncles symptoms- he has Aspergers and bipolar but according to my nan he cant add up, needs her support for all, very low IQ for e3xample- needs her constant assistance ( this is not true ).
even now if my nan is needing attention- she will lie about being ill- having scans having cancer, MS etc- she has lied about this stuff my whole life-
she and my uncle was diagnosed at the Priory as Aspergers/ Autism, ADHD Borderline personality disorder and Manchausens.

I understand your frustration, because my nan usually lies about her illnesses when we are talking about people who really are very ill or close to death ( very insensitive, just shows you how pathological it is ).

Im afraid I do not have any advice- health care professionals barely help my nan and uncle- let alone me and mum ( the family affected daily by their diagnosis's / or not being diagnosed )
hope it helps you to know that you are not the only one going through this.

The other well known case with a good podcast is the one about the Irish Airbnb host who said she had Huntingdons. Sue Perkins has a good podcast about the case…..called Carrie Jade does not exist. She frequently reinvented herself and in the process made up odd illnesses.

I think you have to be really careful with things like this. Unless you've been at the mercy of the systems ( healthcare, public sector support services) you may not appreciate the extent of incompetence and gaslighting. It is endemic.

My child is Autistic/ADHD. I was gaslit to shit by everyone around me. He was masking alot in other environments which means he was doing everything to act ' normal '. Bad choice of words but just to explain things. I have read so many horror stories where CAMHS whom I'd never trust or respect tbh fob people off continually. I couldn't get my child assessed because the school failed to include the right information. No one at all would support me or help at all. My request for an assessment was declined. The school convinced my child's father to not pursue it!

So we had to shop around to find a good reputable assessor and pay for it. He's 100% autistic.

Some people out there working in these professions haven't got a brain cell in their head and I do not know how they are allowed to leave their house let alone work in all these professions. I never listen to a doctor anymore. So many are utterly clueless and make things up as they go along. It's important I feel for people to just think outside the box here. ( In OP case, I see however there are issues with the parents and their behaviour for sure!)

It was, and guess what? I had two more peritonitis ops. The second was a blocked intestine. I was in emergency a whole day. In the end they put a tube down my throat to see what was wrong and I through up half my blood supply, all over the trolley, them, the floor and I still remember it. The third one was 3 months later, when the second didn't heal up and infected everything they didn't take out the second time. t
The GP said ''I can't find anything wrong with you, but bearing in mind what happened before, I'm sending you to hospital, but no ambulance this time. When I woke, minus my repro bits, I was told two surgical teams worked all night to save my life!!! My GP saved my life, because if I had gone to sleep that night, I would not have woken up,

What I am saying is that you can be seriously ill with none of the usual symptoms. In three bouts of peritonitis, I never had a rigid tummy, it was always soft, so you see doctors cannot just dismiss something. For the few M and MBP which exist, no one can take that risk.