Have you ever come across munchausens by proxy?

[Namechangeone]

As per my username I’ve name changed. It’s quite an identifying situation so I’m not going to go into too much detail but don’t want to drip feed either

Edited for clarity: Has anyone experienced munchausen by proxy themselves or known someone that has? I could be wrong about this but it's what myself and others suspect.

Im middle child of 5. Us older 3 lived with grandparents, youngest 2 with parents.

I unfortunately have had quite bad luck when it comes to health. Various ICU stays, operations, long term conditions. No empathy from my parents and now grandparents unfortunately have died.

My younger brother who grew up with my parents has perfect health, had many scans after our mum claiming my brother can't barely walk/has back pain/stomach pain all sorts. Had every test going from teens until now (he is late 20s). Even went as far as paying for private tests because they didn't believe nhs consultants.
They've bought him a wheelchair/crutches for when things are bad - this typically happens when I've just had a hospital stay or there's an event coming up.
In privacy he walks around at home normal. He lives next door in a house they built for him but stays at parents house.

Recently they took him to A&E saying he needed emergency surgery as he's suddenly paralysed - scans were clear. This was day 1 after myself being diagnosed with lymphoma.

He has had every scan going that you can think of and multiple opinions. Also my brother and parents have been offered psychiatric support many times (and declined)

At home he doesn't need to even take paracetamol but if there is an event, he's in agony and needs pain relief and looking after. Apparently can't take tablets so it's calpol 🤦‍♀️
They have a prayer WhatsApp group for him & regular social media posts.

Im not envious of the lack of empathy I have - I'm quite happy in my own bubble & I wouldn't want to live this fake life. I had a good childhood with my grandparents, although miss my gran especially a lot with everything going on in my personal life.
I do have therapy/counselling etc & continue to throughout the years.

Everything had gone back to "normal" with them all but my brother is getting married in a couple of weeks and the wheelchair etc is back out. This happened after the A&E visit one day after my lymphoma diagnosis.
I can't get my head around it all.

I just basically wondered has anyone else had this experience or similar with a family member?

95% of the time it doesn't bother me, I have my own life, but then I do get times where it bothers me (like tonight for some reason!)

What a lovely response to a poster who has been diagnosed with cancer and struggling with a hard family situation 🙄They state immediately in the OP it’s about their siblings, so given the context, DS means DSibling, it’s hardly rocket science.

@JiraffDeSaki @PinkShore @LauderSyme ive jusf reported it when I could’ve edited - I don’t even know why I didn’t think of it!

Thank you for understanding it, I think I ranted away before posting it unfortunately and should have checked it!

Honestly OP I would probably go NC in your situation.

Also I wish you a full recovery - sorry you're unwell.

I’ve seen it in children I teach. I’ve known the families well. The parent has claimed all sorts of problems which simply aren’t there. Including lying on social media about one DC being terminally ill. We could see it but we could never get any medical professionals to listen. The youngest is incredibly anxious and worried all the time. It’s entirely the mother’s making.

I found most of it perfectly clear, don’t worry.

Just to clarify though - is the same brother the one who is getting married? I can’t help but feel for his poor partner then, I suspect they’re about to go through hell in discovering that this has all been put in his head by his parents and trying to convince him of that.

Hope you’re doing ok OP, I presume there’s even more to the story which ends up with you and your siblings separating. Perhaps some space away from them would be the most peaceful for you.

Some reason it won’t let me edit, I reported my post because of the errors so it may disappear. Hopefully this makes it clearer.

Has anyone experienced munchausen by proxy themselves or known someone that has? I could be wrong about this but it’s what myself and others suspect.

Im middle child of 5. Us older 3 lived with grandparents, youngest 2 with parents.

I unfortunately have had quite bad luck when it comes to health. Various ICU stays, operations, long term conditions. No empathy from my parents and now grandparents unfortunately have died.

My younger brother who grew up with my parents has perfect health, had many scans after our mum claiming my brother can’t barely walk/has back pain/stomach pain all sorts. Had every test going from teens until now (he is late 20s). Even went as far as paying for private tests because they didn’t believe nhs consultants.
They've bought him a wheelchair/crutches for when things are bad - this typically happens when I’ve just had a hospital stay or there’s an event coming up.
In privacy he walks around at home normal. He lives next door in a house they built for him but stays at parents house.

Recently they took him to A&E saying he needed emergency surgery as he’s suddenly paralysed - scans were clear. This was day 1 after myself being diagnosed with lymphoma.

He has had every scan going that you can think of and multiple opinions. Also my brother and parents have been offered psychiatric support many times (and declined)

At home he doesn’t need to even take paracetamol but if there is an event, he’s in agony and needs pain relief and looking after. Apparently can’t take tablets so it’s calpol 🤦‍♀️
They have a prayer WhatsApp group for him & regular social media posts.

Im not envious of the lack of empathy I have - I’m quite happy in my own bubble & I wouldn’t want to live this fake life. I had a good childhood with my grandparents, although miss my gran especially a lot with everything going on in my personal life.
I do have therapy/counselling etc & continue to throughout the years.

Everything had gone back to “normal” with them all but my brother is getting married in a couple of weeks and the wheelchair etc is back out. This happened after the A&E visit one day after my lymphoma diagnosis.
I can’t get my head around it all.

I just basically wondered has anyone else had this experience or similar with a family member?
95% of the time it doesn’t bother me, I have my own life, but then I do get times where it bothers me (like tonight for some reason!)

Oh, and I’m not entirely sure I’ve come across it. I have known one family where every thing the child went through was dramatised and exaggerated, and it seemed like that was her entire personality. So the child had a (genuine) cold and she rushed it to A&E convinced it was meningitis, posting on Facebook about it, etc etc. I don’t know where the dividing line is between hypochondria and attention seeking versus actual muchausens by proxy. I certainly wondered what happened to them (we moved away) and could see the potential for it to hugely affect the child’s development.

I feel sorry for his wife to be, but she believes it all. If I were to say anything it just causes rows.

I get comments like, “have you taken your medication” etc - I’m quite open I’ve had poor mental health but I’m always working on it.

I would go no contact if I were you.

Tell DB you know his illnesses aren’t real, tell DPs that they have let you down as parents and you know that DBs illnesses aren’t real. Send DBs future wife a long message explaining everything. She will thank you one day. Then just cut ties.

Why did DPs not raise you eldest three?

What do your other siblings think about the whole thing?

Have you listened to the podcast Believe in Magic? It’s very interesting and mostly about MBP.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p0fhzh45?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile

Yes professionally. I don't think it's as uncommon as you might think. To varying degrees. It's incredibly difficult to unpick.

It's now known as fabricated or induced Illness, sometimes also references with perplexing presentation.

@PinkShore apparently didn’t raise us older 3 due to her career but didn’t want us in care so grandparents took us on.
Mum has admitted to having no love for me (I’m the only female, not sure if that’s related?)

Oldest sibling has SN so doesn’t notice what’s gone on, then my 2nd older brother has a very busy life and doesn’t really talk about it. Everything’s always been “hush hush”.
Parents are seen as “pillars of the community” & church, but in recent years some have left the community or church and spoken to me which validated what I thought.

@MadeOfAllWork I will listen to that, thank you 🙏

Thats really interesting’
I’be never spoken about it since my gran died - she was very vocal about it all.

But with everything recent, I thought a good place to start is posting anonymously here.

Therapy has helped but a long way to go!

Who do you think is the driver behind the supposed illness?

One of your parents or brother?

I know nothing about Munchausens by Proxy or Munchausens. (Or whatever they are called as given upthread.) So don't know if it's normal for those aroma to collective support the illness narrative.

It all sounds incredibly hard to deal with, especially as you have enough on your plate dealing with your own health. If you abd your older siblings were brought up by yoir parents id inagine your relationship with yoir parents is fairly complicated.

It's very easy for us to say go no contact with them all but it could be the best thing for you.

Not actual MBP no, but I know of a few who have Munchausen's (now called Fictitious Disorder).

It's a very interesting topic.

Great podcast. Very interesting.

I need to look into it more.

It’s my mum and now my brother enjoys the attention too I think if I’m honest.

One thing I can’t get my head around is that she has a child that is genuinely poorly and has been since teens, yet hasn’t bothered. It’s like I don’t exist.

I go NC as much as I can but it’s really complicated and I know it seems I’m drip feeding but if I say much more it really is so identifying. I have young nieces and nephews & SIL’s help when I’m in hospital. I would lose that.
My dad isn’t a part of it, he just can’t leave for some reason. No sure if it’s religion/shame.

Unfortunately I’m the one that speaks up or tries to help so it goes against me.

I will have to read about it! I haven’t looked into it much but I remember on one A&E visit whilst I was there a clinician discussing it & offering mental health support to them. This was quite a few years ago, maybe 10?

Your opening post was perfectly clear OP.

Yes, I've come across Munchausen's by Proxy (as it used to be) or Fabricated Illness in my professional life more than once. It's quite frightening as is so difficult to challenge a parent.

What strikes me about your post though is that you and your 2 older siblings were fostered out to your Grandparents in the first place. You very much brushed over that as if it were an everyday thing. But it suggests that you mother (or parents) had issues from the beginning.

As to what you can do now, I suspect there isn't a lot. I would remain pretty low contact and just roll my eyes at the oddity of it all.
Its very sad really.

Professionally once. I knew child for a couple of years and didn't realise at first but it became more apparent over time.

There also seemed to be an almost understandable reason for it as more was discovered. In that a family member who was an adult now had a health condition which was now obvious diagnosed and serious but had been reportedly dismissed when they were a child. So parents seemed to be carrying that trauma and lack of trust in professionals so didn't seem to believe that their own child was in good health. I worried about them alot in COVID lockdowns and afterwards as they were very isolated and out of school for such a long time.

I changed jobs so don't know if and how it was resolved. There had been lots of professional meetings, and growing concern about the medical tests he had been through.... Hard to balance being sure someone is healthy and nothing being missed/overlooked against tests and investigations themselves causing harm.

If your brother has always been told he is ill then he will believe it. You believe what your parents tell you when you are young and if you grow up knowing no better then it can’t help but skew your idea of normal as an adult.

@NewName24 I think I’m just grateful for the love I experienced from my gran after having been told by my mum herself she felt no unconditional love for me (but did the elder 2?)
I was always called the “after birth” as a nickname and had no idea what it meant until I became a mum myself.
Its moulded me to be as best of a parent I can be.

Im building up to being completely NC and as my DC get older it will be easier.

@yesihavenamechangedforthis thats so sad 😞 I can’t being to imagine the worry you had professionally and personally for them.

@HidingBehindTheWallpaper that's very true. It’s so strange. I worry for when he has genuine pain and would not be believed 😔 it’s weird at nearly 30 he has calpol not tablets too.
Its too complex for me to understand!

No proof, but one of DD'S primary school class mates had a younger sibling that was always ill. Mum amost exclusively spoke about the younger child and various Doctors and specialist appointments. And how difficult the child was in general.

But you woul see the child happily running around on the school playground daily. An impossibility if the child had all the illnesses and conditions mum described.

The other thing about the family was that the older child would be often very upset and crying because younger sibling had yet another Dr appointment... that's what DD around 9/10 at the time would tell us .

The family just dissappeared one day which was a bit odd for the chatty oversharing mum.

It's called fabricated illness these days. It's extremely hard to understand these parents and it's so sad that their psychological disorder causes both physical and emotional pain to their child. Fabricated illness by proxy can cause actual disability and psychological damage such as disordered thinking and emotional immaturity, as we saw with the case of Gypsy Rose Lee. Op, i am sorry for your brother but as he has been brainwashed and is an adult it's very, very difficult. I too have lymphoma (for the second time) and think you should step away and focus on your own health and treatment. Wishing you well.