Can we talk about ageing populations?

[Kendodd]

Birth rates around the world are collapsing. South Korea has the lowest birth rate at about 0.7. That means for every 100 people, 35 children will be born. There are predicted to be more people over 65 than under very soon. Many countries are predicted to see their populations half be 2100. While I think this is great for the planet and wouldn't want to change things, it will present problems.

What to do?

There's already a crisis of recruitment in care. Throwing more money at it won't work, we need people to do other jobs as well. Limiting care/health care to the elderly, I can't see how that would work either. Also, most of these countries are democracies, the elderly would be the most powerful voting block.

Anyone any ideas?

Climate change isn't nonsense.

And another who agrees with this. I am 62 and dreading the thought of needing care/ being a burden. I would rather just fade out or head to Dignitas if I can.

😆😂

We’re planning ours- house with downstairs bedroom/bathroom capability etc.

DMil and DFiL left it too late because they wanted to downsize to a bigger house, essentially.

But the politics around it do look to monitor ordinary people’s behaviour and view new children as new polluters rather than as human beings who will contribute to society. I’ve seen loads of posters saying they won’t have children because it adds to the carbon footprint.

Are you feel real? We just stop treating old people because they have become an inconvenience? A lot of older people have contributed loads over the years in taxes and national insurance - why should they be written off? They also continue to support the economy. A lot of garden centres, National Trust/English heritage, out of season holidays etc would collapse without their support and that is without voluntary work that they take on.

Here you go ...

I want to be kept alive as long as possible with medical intervention.

The person getting life-prolonging care decides whether they want it. If they lack capacity, we have a class of qualified decision makers already who are trained to make tough calls, known as "judges".

I'm not talking active euthanasia but about moving someone from a life-prolonging treatment pathway to a palliative one.

Elderly people whom are visiting national trust centres and garden centres are not at the point of requiring care.

I think what the "stop treating" is if you are sat in an armchair in a care home and can no longer recognise your children or make even an independent decision to have a shower do you keep prescribing drugs to keep the heart pumping and lungs breathing. Is that really life, at that point?

Calm down, no-one suggested this.

But who makes that decision and where do you draw the line? Who decides whether somebody has any quality of life? It is all relative. It is also open to abuse by people who no longer want a parent/partner around.

Is that a problem?

We have courts for this.

Here’s an idea. There’s a lot of complaint about pensioners not paying NI, how about introducing it and ring fencing it for elderly care? Regulate care providers with minimum staff/client ratios like nurseries and introduce a proper pay scale and career structure in care. Instead of looking down on carers turn it into a respected profession.

I’m for assisted dying - I’ve got a generative neurological condition, and want the choice. But, people with Dementia are usually happy - they have lost the ability to feel sad about what they’ve got. My parents had it so I get it.

Other conditions are unbearable - but it’s a discussion that needs to be had between the patient and the clinician. It’s not one about money.

I’m not sure why we should pay women to have kids - most won’t end up as carers!

With my savings I would have to pay for care - whether at home or in a home. Not sure I need to pay twice.

Any more than I’d think those with young children need to pay for nurseries twice.

Carers need to be paid double what they are now. Immigration for carers who want to do the job should be encouraged, but with a high wage - but not for them to bring their family with them as we have a massive housing shortage. This could be fixed term contracts with a bonus at the end of the contract.

Strong agree about quality of life. Give people the right to die if they have no quality. My parents begged to be put out of their misery at the end, and in their nineties it was horrendous to see them suffer.

I'm also concerned that children are kept alive when they have really severe disabilities. I've a friend with a son who is in his teens. Shows no signs of consciousness and no quality of life but is kept alive by machines. It's cruel

With my savings I would have to pay for care - whether at home or in a home.

So would I currently but if everyone over pension age was paying a bit, the risk is pooled and we might end up paying less.

Have you contacted PALS? The way your GP is treating you isn't right. You can also complain to your Integrated Care Board. https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/find-your-local-integrated-care-board/

Anyone can leave their job, at any time, for any reason.

you're asking if the collapse of your own species is a problem!?

I give you three guesses. It won't affect the young people because 'well, we always hope that in a few years we'll have a cure for their condition.' Just the pesky boomers sitting on all those 'inheritances.'

We could solve the housing shortage that drives the huge resentment towards boomers who own houses that their children won't ever be able to afford by introducing a Land Value Tax. Not a "mansion tax", not a wealth tax, a tax on the value of unimproved land where that value takes into consideration all the amenities surrounding that land.

This. There are so many of these threads now, I don't know whether to hide them, for my own wellbeing, or keep trying to counter!

How soon would you like to kill me, people? How much sicker will you allow me to get, or would one of you like to pop round now with your pentobarbital?

You know, presumably, that DNACPR plans exist, and are widely used. I'm 100% against "assisted dying" because of the slippery slope, as already showing in Canada, and because of the number of callous posts these threads attract.

Maybe in the future we will be expected to sit down with a medical professional and discuss what we would like to happen if we had a stroke etc so we can have a quality of life.

You can already do this, if you choose to. It's called a Living Will (info here: https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/money-legal/legal-issues/advance-decisions/). We've just done our wills and I'm considering whether to do a living will as well, as I have no wish to live without quality of life and neither does my DH. The thought of being kept alive when my mind or my ability to enjoy or participate in life is gone is horrible.

The UK parliament will be debating assisted dying on 29 April, thanks to Esther Rantzen's petition on the subject. It's high time British people had the option to end their lives at home, rather than having to travel to Switzerland to do so.

Some of my family shoot and are very much in favour of choosing when they die. I'm smart enough to figure out what someone with firearms in their home choosing when to die will look like. I completely respect their right to do that but I also am really not looking forward to finding the bodies.

I'd far rather that my relatives were able to choose a method that leaves a corpse that will actually have a face left to identify the deceased from.