Angela Rayner - political hypocrite, yes or no?

[Agnes12]

Whatever the ins and outs, Angela says she is “proud” to have bought her council house 20 years ago under RTB. Angela has been a long-term Labour supporter and has come up through the Labour/Trade Union movement. I find it quite surprising that she has then bought a state owned asset, later sold at a profit.

I have never agreed with RTB but recognise for if you are given that opportunity you are probably going to take it. However for someone who purports to be a socialist isn’t this a tad hypocritical? Or doesn’t it matter and she should be allowed to take advantage of the scheme as she qualified?

@Tryingtokeepgoing

"He doesn’t pay a smaller proportion though, since the tax take for someone on an average salary of £34k is a little under £4,300 - or 12.5%. So Rishi is paying nearly twice the amount proportionally and 150 times as much in absolute £ terms as the average tax payer.

Perhaps also you could highlight the loopholes that the wealthy can take advantage of, because as far as I can see everyone is taxed under the same rules so if there are some special wealthy person loopholes I’m all ears.

I also expect that a reasonable number of average, and indeed above average, earners are in receipt of some form of benefit top-up, be it child allowance, tax/universal credits or childcare, making their actual tax paid a negative number. Which is all absolutely right - we need to support the lower paid and those with children. But how much more is it reasonable for the higher paid to be taxed?"

I'm not sure where to start with this but I will try.

1. I pay 40% tax on my salary. Sunak pays 23% on his £2 million earnings.

1. Everyone is NOT taxed under the same rules. The wealthy take advantage of every loophole and tax avoidance scheme going, from non-dom where they pay zero tax, through setting themselves up as a company so they pay corporation tax at 25%.

1. To your last point. You may "expect" that above average earners are in receipt of some kind of benefit. Would you care to elaborate. Because I haven't received a penny piece for 15 years.

Like Angela, I was born and brought up in Stockport. I probably was “classist” at one time but not in the direction I think you are suggesting. I made an assumption, which from what you say is wrong ,that Angela’s political journey may have begun many years before she became an MP, as many parts of the north, and certainly Greater Manchester has been very left wing throughout my lifetime. Most of the teachers at my comprehensive in Stockport made no secret of their political beliefs. My A level history teacher was to be found selling the Socialist Worker outside Stockport precinct on a Saturday morning. Many people were politically engaged from a young age. From what I’d read Angela came up through the Trade Union movement so kind of assumed she’d got involved in that through the work she did before becoming an MP.

Thanks to all for the posts and interesting points made.

I grew up during the Thatcher Conservative Governments. Many people fought against RTB on the left as the negative consequences were utterly predictable. It’s not true to say they have only recently become apparent. Of course individuals have benefited. But I believed then and believe now that at a macro level, it’s been a disaster for the country. We knew at the time that once those assets were lost they were gone forever.

One of the principles of socialism is that common ownership of resources leads to a more equal society. Council houses were commonly owned at one time.

I guess that the wider question I was trying to get at is to what extent should your political beliefs and principles, that you want to use as a basis for changing society for other people, affect how you operate in your own life?

Don't believe in private schooling but where did it say that socialism means that we can't have decent things ? Bread AND Roses ??? Leave Ange alone , she worked for it and paid her taxes, unlike some of the high ranking Tories who shoved their taxes into offshore accounts.

Is that you Angela
As I’ve clearly said a lot of things are shit
some of the above aren’t exclusively the government’s fault
but moving on there ive yet to hear a great plan to fix theses
Just endless criticism

I think Angela Raynor is fantastic and labour would fair far better with her in charge.

A lot of labour supporters and labour MPs find it very difficult to maintain their principles when they get more money or opportunities. I don’t care which party people support but it is irritating when they claim the moral high ground.

My left wing friends generally want more of other people’s money to be spent by the government and to stop other people having advantages. This isn’t necessarily wrong but I have no idea why they think that makes them better people (for some reason it does). It is just another fairly selfish view point.

It's not hypocrisy to criticise the system while being forced to live within the system. You can oppose gun ownership while recognising that, ina system which allows everyone to carry a gun you had better carry a gun yourself.

I think if you're the leader of the Govt that has hiked taxes to post war records, then perhaps you too should also feel some of that pain? somewhat hypocritical to use tax vehicles not open to the the average worker to pay so little, in % terms,
As for how much more should he pay? if this was earned income, he would pay over double what he does now.

The average worker, proportionately, feels the financial pain of income tax far more and doesn't have a helicopter whilst hitting us with green taxes.

why is Sunak investing in the USA? why is his wife benefiting from Infosys trading in Russia, providing them with the means to buy weapons to use in Ukraine, ultimately against the UK? does he hate the UK?

AR lived in the house for the required 5 years, thats not being argued.

The question that needs investigation and answering is did she deliberately avoid capital gains tax on the sale of her house by claiming that she lived there on the electoral register when she was actually living with her husband. This would be fraudulent tax evasion.

It surprises me that so many posters are demanding that tax loopholes for the rich are closed but are willing to turn a blind eye to what "potentially" may have happened with Angela Rayner.

Indirectly her money is going to India because it gets money from our foreign aid budget. As the wife of the British PM and a resident of the UK this is where she should pay her taxes. If India can afford to run a space programme it can afford to lose Mrs Sunak’s taxes.

So Angela confirms that she didn't pay capital gains tax on the sale of her home as it was her principal primary residence.

Also that after getting married in 2010 they decided to live in separate houses "to reflect our circumstances".

Plus testimony from her neighbours is that she never lived at her house but instead at her husband's.

So yes I do find it hard to believe that newly married couple chose to live apart "to reflect our circumstances ". I do think she moved in with her husband. And I do think she claimed to be living at her house to fraudulently avoid paying capital gains tax.

But either way it needs to be investigated by HMRC and also the police (as it's a criminal offence to say on the electoral register that you are living at an address when you don't).

x.com/angelarayner/status/1762219592095563994?s=46&t=roDeJ8lNY1suZljI8XTTQg

x.com/angelarayner/status/1762219584306700797?s=46&t=roDeJ8lNY1suZljI8XTTQg

Well, seeing as you don't know how much she spent on the house nor CGT allowances at the time, you wouldn't know the CGT owed.

But as i understand it, so long as she didn't actually own another property, there is no CGT to pay on the profit made from the sale of her sole residence that she owned.

But as you say "potential" ... Sunak however, actually does benefit from tax loopholes, no potential with him and his wife.

@Ggttl "My left wing friends generally want more of other people’s money to be spent by the government and to stop other people having advantages."

Or, in other words,they want people to contribute to the society they live in, and for life to be as fair as possible for everyone. The bastards.

India asked for foreign aid to be stopped in 2005. We keep giving it in business investments in return for trade and influence.

@CurlewKate I didn’t say it was wrong to think that. I said it didn’t make you morally superior.

Entirely irrelevant. The poster I responded to thinks we’re starving Indian citizens by depriving them of Mrs Sunak’s taxes. We’re not.

@rwalker more things are shit directly because of the Tories or because the Tories have spent more time moaning about immigration that doing anything positive. They had the chance to level up, didn’t work. Remember the Northern Powerhouse, that didn’t either. HS2 another bloody failure. They are simply incompetent. Why on earth would Labour be worse ? Intelligent people for the main part, why not at least give them a go. If they don’t perform, vote them out. Simple.

To be honest, I think she should be paying tax in India. She is Indian and her investments are in India. Her husband should be closing tax loopholes which would result in him, and other members of the Super rich paying more tax here.

@Alexandra2001

"Well, seeing as you don't know how much she spent on the house nor CGT allowances at the time, you wouldn't know the CGT owed."

++++
Not that difficult to work out.

She made a £48,500 profit on the sale.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-rayner-labour-lord-ashcroft-b2502151.html

The capital gains tax threshold is 2015/16 was £11,100. The CGT rate was 28%.

So she avoided £10,472 of tax by claiming it was her principal primary residence and that despite being married she was not actually living with her husband.

Look I get that Sunak legally avoids paying much larger sums of tax but like it or not (and until the loopholes are closed) this is not illegal. If he did do anything illegal then absolutely yes he should be investigated by HMRC.

On the face of it what Angela Rayner did and her defence looks very shaky and absolutely yes she should be investigated for fraudulent tax evasion.

Well she clearly doesn’t because she rolled over pretty fast. And of course the loopholes should be closed but the Tories will never do it because they’ll lose out.

Ha like i said, you ve no idea what she spent on the property, which would be tax deductible.

That assumes it was not her main residence, if it was, no CGT is payable.

Plus of course, her tax affairs are her own business, we don't know what she paid or didn't.

However IF she did evade tax, she should face the same penalties as everyone else and in her position, lose her job.

Even is she and her husband lived at different addresses, they would have only been able to have one main residence for the purposes of CGT relief between them. So if Rayner claimed the council house as the main residence, then some CGT will be or would have been payable when the couple sold the other residence.

You have to declare to HMRC which is your main residence otherwise HMRC will do it for you when you sell up.

"Private Residence Relief

You may be entitled to Private Residence Relief on any gain arising on the disposal of your only or main residence. You and your spouse or civil partner cannot have more than one residence or main residence between you for the purposes of the relief at any time while you’re living together (you are treated as living together unless you’re separated under a court order, or by Deed of Separation, or are otherwise separated in such circumstances that the separation is likely to be permanent). Following separation, the residence which is your only or main residence for the purposes of the relief need not be the same as that which is your spouse’s or civil partner’s only or main residence for such purposes"

What is the issue here?

She used the perfectly legal right to buy government policy to put a secure roof over her family's head at the time and she was not even a Labour MP when this was bought and sold.

Surely we should applaud someone who came from a working class background, was a single mother and through sheer will managed to buy her own home, get into politics and reach to the top of her profession.

Of course I can see how her being a smart, successful working class woman would annoy quite a few people...

However IF she did evade tax, she should face the same penalties as everyone else and in her position, lose her job

Totally. People making up stories does not equal proof, however much they want it to be.

Again, it is desperation.