Would you attend church to get a school place?

[Werehalfwaythere]

Sorry for the long content - feel free to just answer the title question!

We live in an area with the grammar school system, and as such, secondary schooling is a bit of a nightmare.

My child is only in Year 1 but I've also come to realise that where we live isn't particularly close to any grammar schools. We live in one of the 'priority parishes' for one school (this means we'd get a place over someone who doesn't live in the long list of parishes) but it's a train ride away and I'm not interested in that for my children as the town it's in isn't nice, especially after dark.

There's a comp on our doorstep that we'd get into. Known to be good in terms of experience but the academic performance is lacking and my child seems to be pretty academic from what we can tell so far so I'd like them to attend a school that offers them enough academic challenge.

Anyway, there's a comprehensive 4 miles away that gets great results, which is sadly rare in this area, given the grammar divide. The only issue is it's often way oversubscribed for this reason and also it's a church school, meaning they offer 50% of their places to church goers before the remaining places go to other kids based on address. This means we'd be unlikely to get in. (I've checked the policy and this is correct).

I'm not anti church. I'm atheist and always will be but have always liked the church community vibe, just not the Jesus stuff tbh. The communities close to us are all older people and generally very friendly and proactive with food banks, fundraising, playgroups etc. I'm friends with a few of them already through various community activities but have never considered joining the church.

To get into the good comprehensive, at least one adult in the family needs to be an active church member for at least 2 years. So if I join when my child is in year 2/3, I should be covered.

Is this amoral? I'm assuming there are other non-believers who attend church for other reasons (community etc)? Im aware this will involve attending services fortnightly as the admission criteria states.

Would you in this situation?

If you attend regularly for years, and contribute to the life of the church at fairs/events etc, and support the Christian values of the school, then there is nothing immoral about it. From what you say, their criteria are based on your presence not your innermost beliefs.

Separately though, is there nothing in the admissions policy about kids who already go to a CofE primary school? It’s worth talking to the admissions department at the secondary school. I do know a child who was accepted at a CofE secondary, even though parents weren’t churchgoers, on the basis that they had been participating in Christian worship for years at their primary school, and wanted to be able to continue that independently of their parents.

I would, yes. And the most religious people I know (actual nice churchgoers, not performative types) would be fine with that - we've discussed it before theoretically. They'd hope I/my family started to get more from it and eventually converted.

My mum's old vicar thought the same way. She was hugely in favour of atheists attending for any reason at all. It pulls families closer, makes it more likely your children would become Christian, plus bums on seats putting something into the collection plate helps.

But you'd have to keep quiet about your own beliefs. It wouldn't be fair to undermine others. And you'd have to face your kids knowing you were lying so it depends on how they'd feel about it.

I say this as a total atheist who home educates, btw.

If you are going to go down that route I think you need to take the kids, so find a church which has a decent children's service, also other activities (holiday clubs perhaps ... throw yourself into it, you might enjoy, then it's not fake. What denomination, makes a difference to how hard core the school will be

Everyone does it where i live as the best schools are church schools.

I live in an area with no grammars. There are two great local schools, the rest are awful. One of the two good schools is a church school. I'm fortunate to live well within the catchment of the other good school but too right I'd sit there for years to get a place in the church school if it meant avoiding the others. I've said it to friends too.

I'm a churchgoer btw, more the merrier

If you don't do it, then someone else will and their kids will get ahead of yours.

Brutal

It sounds like you are a cultural Christian and as you say, you didn't design our bizarre system.

I'd go along for a year and see how you get on and how you feel at the end of the year. You've got time - no need to rush into anything.

If your local comp is good but not academic, I’d be happy with that. You can stretch them at home. The important thing is happy and safe.

That said, you’d be welcome at our church. I would ask you actively support while there, in a polite kind of way. We’ve had people sneering in the past, which is a bit off putting! Churches cost an arm and a leg to run, and it’s generally entirely on the congregation. I’d consider contributing a bit extra if it’s saving you tutors’ fees 😅!

It would be kind not to drop them like a hot potato once your child gets in! My church is a bit like family and it’s sad when people walk away without warning and without looking back.

No. I can’t be bothered, l don’t do religion and it’s hypocritical if you aren’t religious

Check the school admissions criteria. Locally they give points for things like being baptised under 6 months and if parents married in Catholic Church etc to weed out the plastic Catholics

This is actually a really interesting debate. Generally parents seem to like the church schools, universally it looks as though they're doing something right even if you are an atheist. Do you ever ask yourself why? Why are the secular schools not as good? And saying such schools discriminate in favour of church goers doesn't really answer the question unless you're saying church going (and fake church going) people are creating a better school community in which case you have the same question... perhaps there's something in this community business after all...

Yes I absolutely would, and I'm definitely atheist if not a bit anti religion.

But like you, I think the community could be wonderful, and would be willing to put my personal beliefs aside to get my child a good education.

I went to a not brilliant 6th form (my choice) and got poor A level grades after doing well in GCSEs and subsequently getting a 1st at uni, so I think the environment makes a big difference.

It’s on attendance not faith. It’s also useful to know the basics of Christianity in order to understand a lot of UK literature, theatre and history so may well serve them well long-term.

@Changed18

Yes, it is helpful

If there is a heaven I don't think you're going.

I guess if you were practising Hindu and the best schools were church schools you wouldn't feel able to join the church? Especially if they were doing things like checking who was baptised etc.

I’m a Christian so would move churches, but I think you’d struggle to “fake” your religion. Regular attendance means different things. A church education (and learning Bible stories)
is really important to lots of Christians so you’d potentially be taking a place from someone who prioritises it.

I agree with this. Everyone does it in my area. Even some of the most morally debunked people. But i think... well hopefully thier time spent in church might broaden their mind and morals... what is the quote in the bible... do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit...look not to look after only your own interests.

I went to church as a kid, i went to a church school and it was amazing. I would have liked my children to go to but i was in an abusive relationship with their father who went nuts when i took them to church. He was jealous of even that. He banned me from getting them christened and so church schools were not an option. We have been to church since and honestly its great to see families there and from what ive seen the kids get stuck into sunday school etc and all in all its a positive experience i think.

My school installed ethics and values in me that i may not have got elsewhere and it was a very safe and happy place. Particularly when home life wasn't always.

I think as long as the religion is suited to your family and beliefs it surely must enhance.

Yes it gets you involved and you meet other families outside of your social circle.

My religious school was grant maintained and heavily funded by the church.

Speaking of funding: the way CofE funding works is if there are more bums on seats they have to pay more to the Diocese, so if you turn up but don’t contribute it can actually cost the church. It’s called Parish Share.

I am going to start doing this imminently for my eldest who is in year 4 for a catholic secondary school a couple of train stops away. In our town we have literally one option for high school, that’s it. There are no other options. The local comp is awful. It was awful when my parents were teenagers, awful when I went there, awful when my subsequent siblings went there to the point one was removed and judging by the reviews continues to be awful. It hasn’t changed in over 30 years despite changing its name and giving it a jazzy new uniform, it remains a poorly performing school where the education and pastoral care provided is also poor.

My eldest is awaiting an assessment for ADHD, whilst he is bright he is also emotionally younger than his peers and needs support in other areas. The local school has awful reviews for SEN.

It probably is immoral, but there are no options here. He may end up still having to go to the local comp but at least I’ve tried.

So no I don’t think you’re wrong. It shouldn’t have to come to this but needs must sometimes.

The church schools schools have automatic places for a certain number of other religions. For example there were 20 in this years intake for muslim children at our local church of England school. Then like 20 for music aptitude. The rest had to be church attendees then it was just luck of the draw.

This can be good for you on so many levels. Join the church