A thread about Psychopaths…

[Thedryjanuarydiaries]

Spurred on from another recent thread and really just put on interest, I’m wondering if there is anyone out there that would admit to being/knowing someone who scored high on a Psychopathy scale…

Not the Netflix serial killer type but the possible high ( and sometimes ruthless) achievers with low empathy skills and who have to work hard to conform to our social standards and laws.

If so what do you think stops them from committing a crime, acting on impulse and being able to live a normal life.

I wonder what these kind of people look like, if I’d know when having a conversation with them that they were weird differently, how hard they have to work to understand humour, love and go on to me maternal/paternal parents…

I do always find the “Have you ever felt evilnesses” type threads interesting but I’m always left wondering if people are picking up on personality disorders especially when there is no reasons to be unsettled by said person.

Oo my kind of thread. Apparently the stat is something like 1% of people score high on the index? But certain industries may overindex?

I work in the corporate world and can definitely see traits that would back this up. Particularly in senior leaders.

I find this subject fascinating

@mintbiscuit me too…

I can definitely pick out overt Narcissism and wonder if that’s, or a version of it is all I would really sense when speaking to someone with psychopathic, or maybe not, maybe that have lived to mask that too.

I agree about senior leaders
From my own experience working in the NHS many senior managers were pretty ruthless and didn't care to much about individual employees personal circumstances or feelings .

My mother had the diagnosis. I was taken into care because she harmed me. She attacked my half brother with a knife and he had to go and live somewhere else. She was highly manipulative, a compulsive liar and entirely self centered. Emotionally and mentally abusive and a total parasite. She managed to con her psychiatrist into believing she was okay, so I was returned to live with her aged 12 and she made my life hell until I managed to escape in my middle 20s. She liked to pass herself off as a poor, anxious, bumbling middle aged woman, but I saw the monster she was behind closed doors. I never saw her again. She's dead now. She should never have had me, she ruined my life.

Totally agree about the nhs managers I've seen so many narcissistic self centred people rise up the ranks in my 15 years of working in the nhs we even joke they don't hold interviews for management posts they just hand the applicant a 'how much of a sociopath are you' quiz and appoint the highest scorer

I started my nursing career in a secure unit for people with a personality disorder. One if the things we assessed for was psychopathy. I met and worked with a number of patients with high psychopathy scores, enough that I think I got a "feel" for who was going to come out high on the assessment.

As part of the training for this, we used to use each other to practice on, and my supervisor came out with a high (but below the cut off for being a psychopath) score. I think the cut off was 30, she scored 27, while most of us scored 2-4.

She was a brilliant nurse and, in my opinion, extremely trustworthy college. She was the nurse who I 100% knew would come and help me if I was trapped, taken hostage, or was otherwise out of my depth, because she wasn't quite ruled by her emotions in the same way the rest of us were. She wasn't hurting anyone (to my knowledge) though she could be a bit blunt about others getting upset or frightened. I think it was important to her to be a lead figure in the team, but she worked very hard to achieve that.

So, I don't think that all psychopathic traits equate to "evil".

The person I know who gives me serious cause for concern is outwardly warm, friendly, reasonably attractive, very capable. Well dressed in designer clothes, a friend to all. But underneath it a horrifying person, a manipulative void who memorises information about people to better manipulate them. Needs a crowd of constant admirers, with a strong need to be the centre of the show. Collects people, rather than being a true friend.

I've seen/read bits and bobs about psychopaths.

I remember that surgeons (or was it senior doctors in general?) often scored highly on psychopath tests but that can be a good thing because they are then able to respond in the medical best interests of the patient rather than crumble because of the emotion.

I also remember seeing a documentary about a psychiatrist from the U.S who has done extensive studies into psychopath behaviour. He'd done a psychopath test on his family members and all were done anonymously. One family member scored highly and it turned out to be him!!! He admitted that he would do things like duck out of a family event if he wanted to go to a party with no compunction for example. His family members weren't that surprised. But he seemed to function well and be loved. He posed the question "how come?" And said he believed it was the love of his mother. He said there was a notable number of serial killers in the seventies. His theory was that these were psychopaths who had the fatal combination of having had dysfunctional upbringing because they were children of men who'd returned from WWII and couldn't cope with life after the trauma of war and were poor fathers as a result.

However, I think it's very easy to say "oh that person's a psychopath or a narcissist" or whatever and we don't really know what we're talking about.

Yes that fits in with psychopaths often seeming extremely charming and appealing personalities. That they can do this to cultivate useful relationships and discard them whenever they become not useful.

I've worked for two CEOs who I am sure were sociopaths.

They were greedy, cruel, dishonest, manipulative and narcissistic. One female, the other male.

They ruined lives but were very clever at pretending to be charming.

Apart from them, a friend of the family has an adult son who began to display disturbing behaviour from adolescence. He is a serial con artist and has spent most of his adult life in prison. Again, incredibly charming.

Awful, horrific people.

I read about Nicholas Van Hoogstraten, he struck me as a psychopath. A brilliant, and often charming man, with no compunction at all to employ any means to get what he wants. https://www.sussexlive.co.uk/news/sussex-news/story-nicholas-van-hoogstraten-man-4301328

I'm so sorry to read this.
You are a blessing though. To someone, somewhere, sometime, even without knowing it, you've been someone's blessing. 💗

Psychopathy fascinates me, as do serial killers. Only true stories though, not particularly the made up serial killers on crime dramas, though I do also watch them.

i think it was the bbc or channel 4 that had various online tests for different things like psychopathy, autism, adhd, anxiety and a few other things. I’m not lumping them all together but these are the ones I remember.

anyway I’ve done that one and a few others off the back of the first one. (Not saying they’re particularly reliable) but I always score highly on them. People have also often told me I am or act like a psychopath. I’m not saying I am or am not, I don’t know either way, or have ever particularly looked into.

but I am autistic and adhd. Definitely not saying these things make you a psychopath at all. But I think, at least from my experience, they can kinda sometimes make it seem like you are one.

I am remarkably charming when I want to be, I have a facade, whether that is autistic masking or psychopathic behaviour or maybe a mix of both, I don’t know nor am I experienced enough to say. I also come across quite cold sometimes but I am also incredibly kind and thoughtful. I can also find a weird cheeriness in other people’s misery. Not major things but like road rage drivers if they get inconvenienced, I do get a bit of glee. And I do very much enjoy fail videos. There are other things that do make me question whether I am a psychopath, but then I think if I was a psychopath would I actually worry that I am a psychopath.

I do have major empathy for many things, though not everything that maybe I should.

ive totally lost the point I was trying to make I think but the whole thing is fascinating.

im not saying autistics are psychopaths, but I think there is some aspects in some people that can seem like they are a psychopath or mean they do score highly on psychopath tests.

Thank you, that's so kind🥰

I read somewhere that psychopaths would have been essential during the stone age as they could be relied upon to defend the group and take the necessary - often difficult - decisions to ensure survival and to see off kill rivals. Nowadays though, their aggression and ruthlessness have no natural outlet, so they wreak havoc elsewhere. The properly brought up ones who can self regulate and control - and refrain from bullying and manipulating - do make useful leaders and can have good qualities. They do need to be self aware individuals though, which is quite uncommon as the monkey brain tends to take over.

Hey @pasteloblong that sounds bloody awful. I’m glad you were taken away into care for at least some relief 🥲.

Psychopaths are meant to make good soldiers at least in some ways. They have NO FEAR I guess. OTOH I read once that the SAS weed out psychopaths as they are also a liability, as they can be loose cannons. Surgeons it makes sense - they can distance themselves from the blood and the guts. Some sensitive types might find all that blood and guts a bit much !!

I dont think I’ve met a psychopath. But a lower to middle range narcissist mother was bad enough. I also may have come across a female narcissist at work, tried to destroy and smear me (she was very nasty though played the victim). Oh and I went out with a full blown narcissist man (NPD), mad as a box of frogs, frightening and intelligent but sick - ticked every f’ing box. The distinctions between narcissists and psychopaths seem a bit vague. But I think psychopaths are less likely to play the “poor me” card. There a good chance that somewhere along the line the Narcissist will throw the self pity card out 🚩 🚩 🚩 to make you feel sorry for them.

Many people describe one of my relatives as evil and a psychopath. She can't feel empathy, can't see beyond her needs. If she saw someone collapse on the street she'd steal their wallet rather than help them.

I don't know if it's relevant but she was the golden child growing up. She's outwardly charming but when people get to know her they stay away. She can't keep friends.

She's also reasonably wealthy due to conning people, including relatives, often taking legal action on fake cases and lying and sponging off others to live for free.

The worst thing and the reason I distance myself is she physically sexually assaulted her young DS several times, she also starved him - I was told her and the DC's dad were eating fish and chips one time. The poor child was eating the chips that fell on the floor as he didn't get fed.

The police got called when the physical abuse was witnessed and her son taken away, thank goodness.

She now has psychosis and has run out of people to sponge off as her parents who enabled her are now dead.

I know she's pretty evil but it must be awful to be incapable of loving anyone other than yourself. I avoid her mostly but I also wouldn't want to be her.

If so what do you think stops them from committing a crime, acting on impulse and being able to live a normal life.

I think if they get enough 'rewards' from living their life without committing crimes etc then that can stop them.

I think it's discussed in this article. I read it before, it's behind a paywall but I think everyone knows the trick by now? Not sure if I am allowed to post the link to the unlocked page

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/06/when-your-child-is-a-psychopath/524502/

Jon Ronson has done some great work on this topic, particularly his book "The Psychopath Test" and his appearances on various podcasts. Well worth looking up if you find this topic interesting.

Huge numbers in health care, especially surgeons apparently. Lots in banking and senior roles in business.

I scored 22 on the psychopath test. I think this is higher than the average population - when I took the test I was asked additional research questions as a result of thr higher than average score. But I don't think it's very high.

I don't view myself as lacking empathy. I feel thst I understand emotions easily, can read people's emotions well and have strong levels of care, compassion and empathy.

But I'm very logical and scientific in my thinking rather than being lead by emotions.

I'm a Safeguarding Lead in school so frequently deal with children being harmed or families struggling. What I find is that I'm able to switch off from the emotional baggage easily - which I think is an essential skill as a DSL. I could be dealing with a horrible, distressing incident at school, then go home and switch off to do the normal family stuff like taking my children to swimming lessons or Brownies without thinking about the child I was supporting who'd just disclosed rape, or the suicidal child who's mum is an active alcoholic, etc.

(NB - I just gave a much more graphic example above instead if just writing 'rape'. I had to check myself to note that such a description was inappropriate here, so deleted it. I often do that sort of thing. I think it's an example of the fact I deal with highly emotional and distressing incidents in a quite steady, matter of fact and non-emotional way).

I took the psychopath test because I've always thought I had a tendency towards it. The biggest sign is over confidence. Mostly I think I am brilliant and if I decide to do something, I usually really good at it (I'm self aware enough to know how that sounds to a reader here).

I didn't initially realise that this wasn't a universal way to feel about yourself. I remember reading that some people have an inner dialogue telling them they are rubbish and so they use affirmations to help boost their confidence, ie "I am strong, I am beautiful" etc. I read this and thought - my inner voice mostly says things like "I'm better than you". I wouldn't say that out loud, I know it's rude. But I do think it.

I don't think I am evil or a bad person, far from it. My DH and I have a strong, happy and long relationship - 27y a couple, 20y married. Four well adjusted children. I'm very emotionally aware and attuned to the needs of those I care about.

I had a supervisor I'd categorize as being 'psychopathic'. She had absolutely no empathy and took great joy in sacking people. She especially enjoyed being able to 'engineer' a sacking by loading an employee she perceived as 'weak' (ie wouldn't fight back) with difficult cases and then isolating them by forbidding them to consult with other, more knowledgeable, employees and notifying us that we were 'not allowed' to help as the employee was 'under review'. She doubly enjoyed doing this to employees who were chronically ill or who were known to have 'difficult' home lives. She loved nothing better than to kick someone when they were down.

I can remember sneaking off to the toilet with one such employee to secretly consult on a particularly difficult case. This employee had just completely cancer treatment and was in terrible shape dragging herself to work. The supervisor succeeded in getting her sacked and there was nothing we could do to help her because she was very 'thorough' in what she did. IIRC in the 16 months she was in our office she sacked at least 3 people none of whom deserved it, there were 2 retirements that wouldn't have happened when they did, and 1 demotion.

The supervisor was eventually removed from the office, but not sacked. Just 'moved up the Ivory Tower' as was usual for 'trouble management' and placed in a position where she had no subordinates. So they knew very well what she was.

She is pretty much the one person who, if she was on fire, I would not piss on to put her out.

My Dad scored highly on Hares psychopathy checklist. He was very difficult to live with and showed no feelings towards me. Happily my Mother was a completely different story 😊

I suspect that I might be, but not for the usual reasons. I am incredibly sensitive to other people's emotions. I can walk into my office and know immediately who is happy/sad etc and who is cross with who with the emotions just crackling across the office. This means that I have learnt the hard way to just shut it all out or I can't function (and often cant'). COnsequently I sometimes wonder if I am so carefully shutting out the emotion in meetings that I could come across as psychopathic? I know this does not match the definition of the term in principle, but it could in practice?

@pasteloblong, awww pal, what a horrid time you've had. If you ever feel you need cheering up or something nice headed your way dm me an address I can send you something to, even if it's just a wee bit of chocolate and a daft card, I'll send you something! I hate knowing your life has been tough. @heldinadream's words are wonderful and true, what a lovely hen she is ♥️

I listened to a very interesting podcast- Dr. Kevin Dutton said that surgeons often score highly; they need these traits to do their job properly. I think clergy also rated highly!