A thread about Psychopaths…

[Thedryjanuarydiaries]

Spurred on from another recent thread and really just put on interest, I’m wondering if there is anyone out there that would admit to being/knowing someone who scored high on a Psychopathy scale…

Not the Netflix serial killer type but the possible high ( and sometimes ruthless) achievers with low empathy skills and who have to work hard to conform to our social standards and laws.

If so what do you think stops them from committing a crime, acting on impulse and being able to live a normal life.

I wonder what these kind of people look like, if I’d know when having a conversation with them that they were weird differently, how hard they have to work to understand humour, love and go on to me maternal/paternal parents…

I do always find the “Have you ever felt evilnesses” type threads interesting but I’m always left wondering if people are picking up on personality disorders especially when there is no reasons to be unsettled by said person.

I've just done the psychopathy test and I display some traits. I was a manager in the health service too at one point. However I'm a carer for my daughter and her safe person so I guess not all bad.

Thank you thanks kind of you to say, and for taking time to respond. All so interesting isn’t it. So strang how people’s personalities are just so different and one person can be overly empathetic while another has none at all!?

This is fascinating. Thank you for sharing. I hadn't before considered that people with 'psychopathic' traits are actually a vital part of society, and there are many benefits to being this way.

Thank you everyone for sharing especially those who suspect or do score higher on the psychopathy scale…it’s so fascinating to read about your awareness of difference in regards to being led by emotions…

Also the OP who shared that she believes her brilliance and has to be careful she doesn’t tell people she can just do things better than them…

As someone with low self belief I really envy this, to just be confident in every day action and I can see when these kind of personality traits go hand in hand with high and successful achievers.

Can I ask for those who do feel they might or do score highly for psychopathy do you ever have to stop yourself from acting in an unlawful way, do you hold grudges and have to work on not letting anger build up.

And one last question which is more or a personal one as I do suspect someone close to me might also score higher on a scale, do you understand and get humour or is another emotion you see but don’t feel the same way?

Are senior leaders narcissistic/psychopaths or are they just very very good at professional detachment?

It's an interesting question. Positions of power likely provide an outlet for some of the traits imo - if you're the boss you get others to dance to your tune and you learn to manipulate things in order to get the outcome you want. Money is a massive motivator too. To a degree the more senior you become, the more you employ others to free you up for the figurehead and strategic parts of a role so those requiring softer skills can be vested in others.

My older sister is a classic psychopath. She lacks empathy and is driven solely by satisfying her own needs. A very successful therapist in the USA she is able to avoid any criminal behaviour by exercising power over the poor souls who go to her for therapy.
I remember how as a psychology student she wrote to my mother explaining that my disabled brother would never marry because of his disabilities and would therfore become an abuser of children. She has accused other male relatives of being pedophiles and yet has a very strange almost sexual relationship with her own adopted son.
Yet she is able to convince many people that she is kind and decent. She carefully selects those relatives that she plays up to and those that she is happy to destroy.
Psychopaths are all around us, sometimes in positions of great influence or power they don't all run around armed with knives stabbing random people
In fact most of them don't they find other ways to fulfill their needs

@Thedryjanuarydiaries

I missed the comment from the pp who said she believes in her own brilliance, but I resonate with it - I do believe I'm better at lots of things than many people, although I do also recognise there are plenty of things where others have more ability as well.

Re your questions, I have a very quick temper, but it falls as fast as it rises, so there might be a brief period of shouting or taking myself elsewhere to cool off, but no, I don't hold grudges. Takes up too much brain space that I'd rather use for something else, so I suppose I could, but I've never seen the point so choose not to, but cognitively rather than emotionally, I guess.

Humour - yes, I do, but people have different senses of humour, so I might not find it funny just because you do, and if I don't I probably won't laugh along in a social cohesion kind of way, but I do find lots of things funny. Including (but not only) very clever humour and black humour that others may find a bit too dark...

Which also made me think - I think I have a different reaction to grief/bereavement than others. It's quite easy to just feel "well, they're dead, there's nothing I can do about it, so.... Next...", which I feel is quite incomprehensible to many. And I'm never upset about anything in the news, for example. It's a thing happening out there, which has very little relevance to me, so the reaction is no more than "oh, that's interesting", or "people are arseholes" or similar.

Re the "do you have to stop yourself acting in an unlawful way?" - it depends what you mean. I don't commit, e.g. fraud or theft or violence, because they're at odds with my morals and ethics, and it's much more that which governs my actions than because they're illegal.

Small things - I work on my own operating model for the universe. So largely, I don't follow rules because they're there, but if I agree with the reasons for them, then I'll be acting in accordance with them anyway.

But I feel zero need to follow rules because there's a rule there, if you see what I mean. Sometimes (rarely), I'll follow a rule I don't believe in because there might be negative consequences to not doing so, but mostly, if I don't agree with it I just ignore it. And in general this also brings close to zero negative consequences, and often has benefits. I don't tend to advertise it though, because people have opinions about it, and frankly I don't agree, won't agree, and find the conversation tedious!

I suspect it may be linked to the "I know better than others" aspects of thinking. Many rules are (IMHO) put in place to keep the lowest common denominator in line. So if you're smart enough to think round them, then I don't see that there's any obligation to comply with rules I consider stupid. But I would support anyone in doing that, it's not particularly that I think I'm special in that regard.

I 'knew' NvH in the late 1980s. I accompanied my boss who had a series of meetings & social events with him as he was thinking of doing business with him. I remember NvH had the same very beautiful woman with him each time who had (what seemed to be by design?) facial scarring. We went to the powder room at the same time (deliberately). She had broken English but filled me in a bit on what he was like: Horrifying. I passed it onto my boss who declined to pursue any further business interest thank goodness.

@medianewbie oh my gosh, that’s fascinating and horrifying all at the same time…

Did you ever find out if he had caused the scarring?

@NCforPsychopathThread Thank you for sharing all this, I find it really interesting.

Interestingly a lot of happy go lucky bubbly people are very selfish underneath.. Selfish in the sense that if something doesn't affect them or concern them they don't care or will offer assistance. They are good at taking a step back and going under the radar . One such person admitted he assess people and situations for his own advantage and will play on strengths and weaknesses. He was very likeable and had a magnetic charm.

This is exactly how my brother was and I am convinced be had psychopathic tendencies. Even as a child he was incredible at manipulating situations and people for his benefit, which sometimes just seemed to be the pleasure of knowing he could do it. For example, he would tell all sorts of lies etc to persuade other children to fall out with one child and encouraged them to do/say nasty things to them. All the other children involved got upset and would eventually apologise but he showed no remorse and would just calmly say that he'd not done anything. If anything I'd say he seemed energised by the situation. He would then quite often befriend the picked on child and manipulate them. He continued this sort of behaviour in to adulthood, often telling lies to friends about their girlfriend/boyfriend and manipulating his own partners. On one occasion he encouraged his (much younger) SIL (his wife's, brother's wife) to believe that her DH was cheating on her, that his own marriage was over and that they were supporting each other through a difficult time. Until eventually she slept with him and he told the entire family, blaming her for seducing him when he'd been drinking. He seemed to take great pleasure from the upheaval this caused and bragged about how easily his wife forgave him. There are numerous examples of him doing really nasty (yet never quite illegal) things to friends and family. I have no doubt that there was nothing he would have had an internal moral problem with doing and the only thing that stopped him from even worse behaviour was the fear of not consequences if he didn't get away with it. So much so that I cut all ties with him many years ago.

He was not very successful at work. He was excellent at talking his way in to jobs that he was not really qualified to do and at first he seemed like he was doing well- quite often becoming close with bosses and put forward for fasttracking etc. But there was always some sort of drama they resulted in him leaving on bad terms. I suspect most of what we were told about this was lies and that actually he refused to follow instructions and/or received complaints about his behaviour.

I'd love to know where I can find a genuine psychopathic test from?

Sounds like my exh! @VelvetShrimp

I too have a sense of self confidence, a feeling of I am fucking amazing, am always right. But not all the time, I have major crisises of confidence sometimes too. I seem to go between them depending on what the thing is or my mood. Often if someone says you were really good at that, how can you do that so well. I say I know. I’ve always been told you need to say thank you, not I know. I do however often play down my ability at things to outside world but also equally I don’t, like I really struggled at uni getting things done at the last minute have a panic and then go and do pretty well. At the time people would say how are you never stressed about things. And I would like I know, it’s not exactly difficult. But now it’s more like I did really struggle (autism, adhd reasons) but it doesn’t particularly matter because I still did pretty well, though not amazing.

I have times where I think I can do no wrong and I’m amazing and great. Other times I have major meltdowns for hours or days because I think I’m useless at everything and can’t do anything right and have no future.

not major crimes, but things like speeding, I don’t do it frequently only occasionally and only if I’m pretty sure I can get away with it, or if I want to get past another driver who is being an idiot (ie driving way to slow, or driving at varying speeds sort of thing) and only ever on dual carriageways or motorways. I do have set speeds I sit at as a rule, as in only just over the speed limit by a mile or two an hour. Sometimes it’s very much an autistic thing and sometimes I just have a bit of fun.

i do hold grudges, usually over rather minor things. I also have an amazing memory for some things so I tend to remember for at least a very long time. Also potentially a bit of an autistic thing for me rather than necessarily psychopathy.

only very occasionally do I get very angry, I’m really rather laid back most of the time, especially since starting adhd meds.

i don’t understand sarcasm in the sense that I can rarely see identify if someone else does it, but I am very good at being sarcastic myself. I do have a brilliant sense of humour, but sometimes at the expense of others (only minor things though) and sometimes I just don’t get the humour thing at all.

obviosuly again I am not saying autistic people are psychopaths, but I think somethings do lap over and other things can make it appear like I’m a psychopath but are really autistic things or adhd things.

i do mainly have a strong moral compass, but this is mainly for big things. I have a healthy respect for the police most of the time, though I can also see if they’re being fucking idiots too. If I can push the boundaries or break rules of things I will, but this is never like major things that affect people in any significant way. I understand that affecting people in a minor way is not good either. Often it’s like a game to me, rather than vindictive streak, though sometimes if someone upsets someone or does something wrong I will in a bit of vindictive way get my own back.

i realise this makes me sound a bit nuts and possibly quite like a psychopath (although minor compared to what others have posted).

I have no idea whether I am a psychopath or whether it’s just a combination of autism, adhd, pda tendencies and personality, that make it seem like I am. Or maybe it’s a bit of both and I am even partially a bit of psychopath (like tendencies), who knows. I do always vehemently deny I am a psychopath if anyone brings it up, as I am quite affronted if people think I am even vaguely like a serial killer or other.

i do however have many good qualities. I would do anything for most people, even going significantly out of my way or at the detriment of myself. I think it balances out quite a bit in my case. But I do acknowledge that I do have issues.

That was me.

do you ever have to stop yourself from acting in an unlawful way

I don't have urges and have to stop myself. I do suspect I could get away with most things if I wanted to. But part of my quiet belief in my own brilliance, is that I have high moral standards - this is what stops me doing stuff I could probably get away with.

do you hold grudges

No. Noone is important enough to take that sort of negative brain space. That said, I remember things. Especially if someone did something I consider morally wrong - I'll judge the person for it forever. I won't hold it against the person, but will think less of them.

have to work on not letting anger build up

I very, very rarely get angry. I tend to understand the reasons behind a person's behaviour, rather than getting angry with them about it. So anger doesn't build up. If I were to describe my disposition I'd use words like stoic, steady, level headed, dependable - the opposite of angry or hot headed.

do you understand and get humour or is another emotion you see but don’t feel the same way?

I like most of the main stream comedians and get humour just like most people.

@Doggydoggy out of curiosity, how do you relate to your parent(s)? Do you have a good relationship? What about romantic relationships?

(ps. I do get the confusion over ADHD, PDA, autism as well. Such combinations can make relationships hard I believe).

I get on great with my step mum, we have our moments but we have a good bond. I also get on great with my dad, he is a bit emotionally unavailable but he is very practical and is always there when you need him, same as the rest of his family. He’s most definitely autistic as is the rest of his family.

my mother died when I was a young teenager. She loved me very much, but as typical with mother daughter relationships as a tween it wasn’t particularly the best but not exactly bad either. It also came across that she preferred my sibling, he was very much a mummy’s boy. Where as I was a daddy’s girl. So it wasn’t like I was unloved or sidelined but I preferred my dad and my sibling preferred my mother, so they just rolled with it.

i had a very good at home childhood, bar a few minor issues, as typical with most. Nothing to particularly complain about.

edit, forgot about romantic relationships. I’ve really had much desire to date or do anything more. I have been on two dates, once when I was 25 and once when I was 27. I have chatted to a few people on dating apps but nothing more. I do get attracted to people but the thought of being intimate gives me the heebie jeebies.

This thread raises the question: Is a psychopath born one or raised to become one?

I mentioned I score highly on the psychopath test. I have high levels of self confidence. If I reflect on where this comes from, I come back to this specific stage in my life:

In early secondary school I was relentlessly name called for being fat (FYI, I was a little overweight, but not obese or massive). My Mum's advise to me on dealing with this was to tell me that I should always remember I am better than them, they call me names because they know I am better than they are and so want to pull you down - don't let them. Ignore the behaviour, its so irrelevant it doesnt need any responce

I really, really took this advise seriously. For the best part of 2 years, I spent multiple times every day repeating the mantra "I'm better than you" in my head. This mantra became a habit and I believe is the basis of my confidence. Even now, if someone were to slight me in any way my immediate responce is to say in my head that im better than you, you're just jealous that I'm brilliant.

Also as a result of this name calling, I tend to discount as irrelevant anyone who has any kind if negative opinion of me. So I don't care what people think of me - which is a very freeing thing.

Many people talk of bullying being the cause of their low self esteem. For me, it was the direct cause of high self esteem. I feel like my psychopathic tendencies started with my responce to thus bullying.

It was always my understanding that psychopaths were born Psychopaths and sociopaths were created by circumstances.

no idea whether that is true though. It was a number of years ago that I read that.

The mention of autism/ adhd is interesting. Do you think some self diagnosed neurodivergents are in fact physopaths /sociopaths instead ?

https://www.penguin.co.nz/books/the-lucifer-effect-9781846041037

Omg yes! Our Nhs manager is a proper narcissist and if she doesn't like you, you will know about it. One minute you can be her absolute favourite the next she's speaking to you like shit. I actually made a thread about her because she is so toxic and such a horrible horrible person. No one is happy.

Wow this sounds exactly like my "friend" who cheats on her husband every day with different people just for the attention. It's sick

My STBXH has been diagnosed as being psychopathic.
We were married for 20 years. In that time he manipulated and calculated every situation. It is only now that I have left that I can even start to see what he was doing. The level of emotional abuse (leaving aside the physical abuse and rape) was horrific and I still can't quite believe that he had manipulated me so far that I just couldn't see it.