Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

That’s fascinating, thank you for sharing that. It’s a level of arrogance somehow isn’t it?

Of course baby Victoria would still be alive if she had been removed at birth but the same could be said if they had not been on the run and able to live in a safe, environment with her.

@Jacqueline1970 But isn't the whole point that baby Victoria wasn't safe with them, no matter what the surroundings. If they hadn't been on the run and in a 'safe' environment, Victoria was still not deemed to be safe with them! One could argue (as Constance Martin did herself in fact) that her smothering her baby could have happened anywhere (if one believes that's how she died).

There is the huge glaring disconnect between CM’s assertion that she was looking after the baby appropriately and all she did was show her love - and the fact that the baby died. It’s as though the parents think it was just a really unlucky thing, much like the car catching fire, and leaving their passports and a couple of grand in cash inside the burning vehicle.

The dots just don’t join up.

The fact that they had a plan is irrelevant really when it was a totally impractical and dangerous plan from the start.
Exactly. It wasn't a plan that thought about the baby's needs, and how to put it's needs in the center, while removing it and themselves from the reach of social services so they could all be together. Just a vague set of chaotic plans implemented way too late that assumed nothing would go wrong when life had already showed them that's not how life goes.

GrandKarber IMO It's part arrogance, and part upbringing, presumption and assumption, and the elephant in the room, UC guilt, a desire to in someway level advantages while holding onto the entitlement of them. What's interesting to me is they don't extend the leveling bit to other mothers, (even when actually depending on them) just men that they feel complete them.

IMO It's part arrogance, and part upbringing, presumption and assumption, and the elephant in the room, UC guilt, a desire to in someway level advantages while holding onto the entitlement of them.

Presumably you’re referring only to CM here. Does MG not bear any responsibility for the welfare of his children?

Honestly? No. Though he's equally culpable. He's wisely opted not to be cross examined.
I don't know the ins and outs, but I bet when all of everything is raked through, it will be evident that he never took any responsibility for them.

sorry, Elleherd, I phrased that badly. I agree he took no responsibility - I meant he should also have taken responsibility.
He is just as culpable as CM.

CM’s got that blithe-instant-answer-that-doesn’t-add-up thing that fanatics do to excuse bad behaviour.

Cultural relativism, religion, the Universe etc get the blame. Not the precious Holder of Sacred Views.

’It wasn’t me that drowned the witch, your honour, she just sank when we tied the stones on her dress’

’It wasn’t rape your honour, she’s 12 and that’s plenty old enough to be put to bed with a 70 yr old in many cultures.’

’It wasn’t dangerous driving your honour, I see the girl losing her leg as the Universe saving her money on shoes.’

Totally. He's every bit as culpable.
But this is a man who as a teenager broke in and threatened the lives of two children in order to silence their mother while he raped her for several hours. Given what we already know about their lives, expecting him to turn out to be a responsible parent just feels... well basically I suspect this is what CM is really referring to when she uses the term 'bigoted.'

@Elleherd fascinating and so true IME.

Superiority complex at work - this type is fundamentally pretty nasty. And dangerous, if it suits them.

All the joss sticks in the world can’t hide the whiff of ego-driven cruelty.

Some tell themselves they’re heroes - self-righteousness is off the scale, and they’re genuinely proud of living a life of ‘protest’, as if shitting under a tree was more valuable than a full-on anti-racism campaign.

CM comes across as someone living in her own fantasy world.

She has testified in Court this morning that she planned to give Victoria to a third party that she could pay to smuggle her out of the country. Apparently you can find people to do this on Gumtree.

Very common service advertised on Gumtree 🤦🏻‍♀️

The judge appears to be getting quite frustrated and cross with her if you follow Total Crime's tweets on X. It sounds like she might even be about the perjure herself!

WtAF is she on glue?
I think she's got some serious mental health issues.... maybe schizophrenia? I can't imagine why someone would believe this.

She also said they had over 30 burner phones and every car they bought had a GPS tracker.

“I would have found someone online like on Gumtree, nannies who don’t necessarily have the same qualifications as nursery teachers but you can go and spend time with them and see how they are with children." - Constance Marten.
Posted by Holly Evans, 11 March 2024 11:54 https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/constance-marten-children-mark-gordon-trial-live-b2510531.html

Uhmm, because paedophiles are terrible with kids? They've never been known to be sweet or normal or good (superficially) with kids, right Constance?

Social services, NHS staff, her family and the court have been so so right to step in as they did.

She sounds so naive and gullible in her evidence. Sometimes it's hard to remember that she is an almost 37 year old woman and University graduate and not a young teen.

I think she's making herself sound insane citing Gumtree, because IMO the truth is in it's own way worse. But I may be being unfair and she is just a fantasist.

To me the truth is more likely to be she would have either conned and endangered some poor sap by offering a 'position' that started by traveling to France with dodgy paperwork/ or hidden baby with wild story explaining it all, and then instead of 'becoming the live in nanny in a DIY Chateau program once we get there' or some other ornate lie that offered something tempting and unusual, then sacking them once there. (My first two live in plus my kids, housekeeper/nanny jobs were a steep learning curve)

Or she'd have turned to dodgy networks to find someone desperate for money who had a small baby so could raise a babies passport, and offered them serious money to go out with her child on their child's paperwork, and return without it.

But she can't say any of that because it would show up that she'd: A) endanger and entrap some poor sap trying to better themselves, or B) proposition and use someone desperate with much lower circumstances than herself, and C) have entrusted her baby to any other parent willing to do it as being 'good enough' cause they've had a kid, (or had someone close to them who had) so...

Or she lives in her own fantasy where others just do as she has planned to suit her, but also I can't help but wonder if she isn't hoping to end up in a MH setting rather than prison.

I can't help but wonder if she isn't hoping to end up in a MH setting rather than prison.

Yes I agree.

Indeed, her evidence today demonstrates that she’s not remotely in touch with reality.

BigMandsTattooPortfolio · Today 14:51

Indeed, her evidence today demonstrates that she’s not remotely in touch with reality.

Yes - I hope the judge and jury also see this.

It makes me wonder why her legal team let her be cross examined?

They must be despairing at this stage. The prosecution is riling her into making even more outlandish statements.

She does sound like she is mentally ill. I think they only discuss this at sentencing though?

She also sounds brainwashed in some way, perhaps a hangover from the cult she was a member of.

She clearly genuinely believes what she is saying and thinks its a persuasive argument to get her off.

3:42pm
Marten says that her and Gordon had planned to flee the country "for months".
She said: "That was our plan for months. We wanted to go to Harwich because it goes to Denmark. We wanted to get to Europe."
https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/24176020.constance-marten-trial-live-aristocrat-cross-examined-old-bailey/

Would that be the Harwich-Denmark ferry that stopped running in 2014?

Post Brexit? Without visas/work permits. With a man with serious criminal convictions? Without so much as a birth certificate or passport for the baby? To a country where every person has to register with the authorities, get a personal registration number for basic things like healthcare.