Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

Constance has the confidence of her privately-educated, aristocratic background but is detached from reality.

God she sounds utterly insufferable. Western perspective?

This is nothing but an extended teenage rebellion with utterly horrendous consequences.

I agree having seen the inappropriate way that Victoria was dressed for the weather and in comparison to how CM and MG were dressed. They managed to get food and a buggy and other things baby related so it wasn’t as if they wanted to avoid purchases that could be for a baby to avoid detection. It seems that it was more about beating the system somehow to prove a point but in that process either deliberately or mistakenly neglecting the one person at the very centre of it all

She really is. I was baffled a pp said she came across well.

as for the I’ve cared for 4 children comment - she’s deluded.

She comes across as an eccentric posh person with very strong weird beliefs (midwivery is not necessary, children can live in tents in England, denying covid tests) ans somehow quite deluded. Also her entitlement shows (family should have bought me a house, trust fund was too small etc..)
her lawyer didn’t advice her well with those statements or maybe this is the best she can do.

With the suggestions that her family had possibly followed her, bugged her or even sabotaged her, she sounds completely detached from reality.

And despite her protestations, she clearly has no idea whatsoever about what tiny, vulnerable babies really need but possibly genuinely thinks she does. Terrifying and tragic.

@teawamutu I couldn’t believe when she said she couldn’t get antenatal care for baby 1 because her family had hired detectives. As if the NHS would pass on data to detectives.

also if the story is true, a detective would be able to find she was pregnant pretty quickly unless she planned on hiding inside.

her DM is a therapist specialising in trauma, family issues and grief, I sort of find that fascinating.

@Sonora25 i have wondered throughout about schizophrenia with CM and her Father

Both seem to have / exhibited strong symptoms and AFAIA it can often start in later life eg onset 30s for her and her Father

Nothing else make sense. I think she wears the trousers, and he's lower intelligence and effectively followed her (and had less options re employment/ earnings due to criminal record, hence the need for alternative lifestyle)

I dont think shes an addict at all

In my very surface level opinion I think she has a personality disorder.

Interesting @scoping87 so far her defence team have not claimed any mental health issues or disorders. Maybe she is refusing assessments.
i agree that something is off with her.
Also she seems very concerned with MG’s wellbeing (he looked anorexically thin etc) not so much with her baby’s. (Baby had everything etc)

Nail. Head. Hit.

No expert here, but presumably her New Age Rebellion was a source of huge pride to her and she cherished her oh-so thrilling identity as Hippy Heroine fighting against The Man.

Not quite so heroic when your DD dies.

The collateral damage went in the Lidl bag.

So much delusion and grandiosity revealed in her account of events. She appears to be one of those people, quite common in new age circles, who are convinced they know better than the ‘experts’.

Indeed. She still doesn't think their actions made them responsible for Victoria dying. It's all someone else's fault.

I cannot help but feel that as she had approached the social services for help earlier, presumably because she wanted support, she then says she felt let down because they removed her children. I mean how desperate does someone need to be to actively approach the SS? That might have been her last hope of being supported, she looks to me like she's someone who has taken a fair few wrong turns one being this guy.

You can see why she wouldn't trust the SS again. The SS do make poor decisions at times, not sure without looking at the history whether it was then a missed opportunity when the family could have been steered onto a more positive track.

Either way having a child removed is extremely traumatic for any parent, & there's absolutely zero support in the system for parents in this position, like none. So it can lead to extreme mental health issues even without the presumable issues they had to start with that led them to the position of having children removed in the first place.

She said she approached them for help. She also accepted that she was heavily pregnant and living in a tent with her first baby and expecting social services to magic them up a house. She is not reliable about these events.
She was placed in a mother and baby placement with that child and then went home with the baby, and they had 3 more before they were all removed. I think I can confidently say from my experience of working with parents like this that she has absolutely no insight and almost no capacity to change. The issues that led to them putting baby number one at risk persisted to baby number 5 who paid the price for their deluded beliefs and lost her life.
Some parents would be able to turn it around and care for their kids. Sometimes they can't do it in the time that the child needs and can care for subsequent children well enough because they've had time to make the changes. But some parents just can't and won't get it. I'm afraid CM and MG are these parents. She's still insisting they didn't do anything wrong.

There are projects supporting parents who have had children removed by the way - but like everything else good government funding is sporadic. Parents can also access post adoption counselling from the local authority, but I've never known a parent actually accept this. I can see why; but the option is there.

They have special safeguarding midwives as well who specifically deal with this so there is support out there and I know this through my own work.

This belief from professionals that most cannot turn it around is sadly why's so many don't.
She probably felt that was the final straw, how desperate must someone be to go to the SS.
Maybe grow some empathy for parents who are in this position because I believe, that all parents do their best with what they have.

And if you don't have faith that people can change & grow under the right circumstances or support then maybe you need to re examine your own values. Blaming individuals for whole family & system failure never got anyone anywhere.

I'm not sure if there's going to be support AFTER a parent has a child removed to help with the obvious trauma, suffering & lifelong pain that parent will have to deal with.

I'd like to think there is but the system is not going to care about the parent after the fact. I'd like to see how they are supported during and after the decision to remove is made. I'm convinced that most parents will feel out of their depth as soon as the SS get involved.

I have a relative who took some poor decisions when she was younger, & we stepped in to support the SS were getting very heavy handed with her & because we helped her point out to them how intimidated & frightened she felt by some of their actions, she received an apology.

Not all SS are great they can get it wrong & approach in a way that is frankly unhelpful to everyone, including children. I know this is just one experience but I'm willing to bet this won't be an isolated incident. Had us family not been there to support... could have been an unnecessary adoption statistic & so much damage.

I'm a social worker of many years experience. Of course I believe people can change. Try reading my post again. I also know from experience that some people cannot. The fact that CM insists she didn't do anything wrong or contribute to Victoria's death and thinks it's ok to live in a tent in minus conditions because it's a western mindset to think otherwise is clear evidence that she hasn't changed. Again, you only have her account that she asked for help. Evidence acrually indicates that she hid behind a door when social services knocked to conceal her pregnancy with one of the earlier children and was living in a tent at a late stage of her first pregnancy. She erroneously believed if she said she was a traveller social services would give her a house. I suspect that's what she means by saying she asked them for help.

Your post sounds like you are automatically making all kinds of assumptions, you suspect this & that & it's just based on the evidence of the mother etc.
It's this lack of belief that someone is bound to be doing xyz that I'm talking about. You might be wrong. Maybe you don't think you are, but it's the lack of self awareness, the "I'm right because I've worked as a social worker so I'm right" it's astounding.
I'm less inclined to think that you're right, you might be jaded by an unsatisfactory system for all I know.
The system has clearly gone very wrong somewhere you cannot point & blame an individual when a child dies because it's everyone's responsibility.

It’s the parent’s responsibility not to freeze their baby.

And feed and clothe and house and raise them for 18 years.

Everyone helps because we’re a healthy society, not because it’s our job.

Extreme help arrives for the benefit of the baby, not the parents.

You can hold people responsible for killing other people. And must. You don’t have to judge them but you do have a duty to stop
them killing more.

It's honestly amazing that you're trying to blame a system rather than the two people who were responsible for this baby's death. Some people kill their children. Some cause their deaths through neglect. It's a small number but they exist and nobody is responsible for these actions other than the parents.

Why do you think MG and CM were able to buy food/ supplies but not warm clothes for the baby @Messyhair321 is that SS fault as well?

That’s basic care and CM claims she’s know how to care for children and she’d do
anything for them. Apart from basic care it seems.

Agreed. Genuinely shocked that a sw is getting criticised for saying that some people won't change. That's exactly the problem we have atm. Way too many sw giving way too many chances.