Constance Marten & Mark Gordon - Baby A case

[SportMum1982]

What have I just read? What the actual fuck is wrong with the world. That poor baby. These utter idiots. Sorry I’m so so angry.

Constance Marten and partner ‘killed baby to keep her out of care’

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/24e56090-f175-4bf8-ac07-380621d9954f?shareToken=186074e86c05c4df704ef1889186acdc

Was this the time that CM refused to take a Covid test when she returned to the ward from the hearing to the ward and then chose to leave the baby rather than follow the ward protocol?

Thanks for your post and clarification.

Yes I think so.

I think it possibly was that time I just think it’s important to make clear that the leaving wasn’t abandoning the child but to attend a court hearing if it’s that occasion

See Lunde's post. The abandonment was post hearing.

From the Guardian

“After another birth, in 2021, she had left the child at the hospital, and on returning the following day was refused entry because of Covid restrictions and her refusal to take a test.”

i personally think theres cannabis use in their previous history... it would explain the dirty flats (it can make people lazy) where a lot of their moneys went... wanting to camp in tents (no neighbours to report smells?) possibly the reason she "fell out of the window" was actually leaning out smoking. its possiblr they havent disclosed this to even theyr own solicitors so it hasnt been brought up. he looks stoned on that recent mugshot? using alcohol on the run to mask the want for a smoke.
Also think hes referring to her as the baby because Victoria isnt even the name they gave her its just another secret they have between them and laugh at the rest of us for believing it! i dont think shes once referred to her with that name in interviews,has she? the prison shes in seems "cushy" reading theyr page... compared to non private prisons i mean...

It seems incredibly strange that she cared enough to want to attend the hearing in person then went straight back to the baby and presumably would have reunited but for the fact she wouldn’t take a covid test? I don’t really know what to make of it all I can possibly see coming through from the information so far is that they were anti government and wanted an alternative lifestyle, the living off grid even though they had the option to be housed comfortably, not turning up to contact (maybe they didn’t like being told and wanted it on their terms?) yet we’re apparently engaged when they did attend , caring enough to go to a hearing in person but not wanting to be dictated to about covid rules and that principle was more important than going back to be with the baby?

It all sounds like they were just against ‘the system’ and that took priority. Fleeing was perhaps just to be in control not even because they were misguided and thought it was in the best interests of their baby but just to beat the system

I have someone in my extended family with a history of drug problems and he is very much against the government and the “system”. He lost a job because he didn’t have a covid vaccine (not in this country), and therefore lost his accommodation and was homeless (and beaten up by other homeless people). He wasn’t against vaccines per se just against the government making the covid one compulsory in certain jobs.
so I can believe that people do incredibly stupid things to “beat the system” but in his case there is a long history of drug use (decades really).

I mean, cannabis can definitely lead to neglect but this is a whole other level. Also they would probably have had drug testing during the proceedings. None of this can just be put down to being weed smokers.

They probably didn't engage with the drug tests I would imagine and as you say this is far beyond cannabis use. To answer another point from earlier yes there are huge differences in court culture across jurisdictions, our barristers talk about this a lot

“Jurors heard of an incident of domestic violence in 2019 and a judge found a “risk of harm to the children by being exposed to physical violence between the parents”.
All four children were made subject to care and placement orders in January 2022.“

so basically about 3-4 months after that she was pregnant again.

i assume they are referring to the window incident.... but that 1 incident (with no evidence he did it apoarently) wouldnt result in adoption. it seems its more a lack of consistency thats stopped them getting the other kids back and general lack of prep and insufgicient living/items for bringing up children in the "mainstream" way (MG wording not mine) i think theres a good chance the jury will believe Victoria died of hypothermia rather than suffocation by what was reported in the podcast yesterday. i thought she looked a bit limp on the cctv in the kebab shop and various witnesses said she was pale.... defence should be starting soon... although im not sure theres much for them to say!

On the podcast they said she wanted to take baby to thr family hearing but was adviced that baby was not ready to be discharged. When she left without baby, she was advised she had to do a covid test to come back because of covid restrictions and she refused to do so.

Really awful post @karenR1662

@RunningThroughMyHead: 2 in a nutshell.
I can't imagine being like it, but the judge said their arrogant, selfish behaviour was evident.

Did their contact reduce because they were hiding their pregnancy?

I think there must be a lot more to this than we know. There HAS to be mental health disorders or addictions involved to want to sleep in a tent rather than a home (sleeping in tents for first baby too).

They're too erratic and unrational. And with rumours of DV (I can't see any proof that we've been made aware of beyond the "falling out of the window" incident which could happen if high or mentally unwell too). There's just so much going on here. It's VERY messy with a lot of unknowns.

The older kids were adopted well before this pregnancy I think. They talked about a break from contact so I don't think it was related to hiding pregnancy

It was Marten's father who raised concerns about the children and a nationwide NHS alert was issued about Marten during her first pregnancy - from a London hospital and picked up in Wales

RunningThroughMyHead It seems bizarre they could both live the homeless lifestyle without any form of substance abuse, yet none has been disclosed. Surely social workers would be aware of this or has this been hidden or not disclosed to the court. All very strange.

@placemats that's really interesting, can you tell me where you got that info from? Thanks xxx

This has crossed my mind. I suppose the authorities thought that it would drive them to handing themselves in but unfortunately for that poor little baby, it didn’t happen that way.

As for the “stop with the coercive control stuff”, if you cannot see the elements of CC in this case then you are ignorant/blind/both. An eyewitness has her looking exhausted, carrying all their stuff walking behind him, who was strolling on ahead doing nothing to help. Bearing in mind she had just given birth with no medical help and must have been bleeding heavily. When they were arrested she was asking the police to be careful with him because he had mental health issues. Apparently she had a very normal life until he came on the scene, these are just things off the top of my head. His attitude during police questioning? Wow! She’s since cut off all of her friends and family and had a very nomadic existence etc etc.

So yes, anybody who knows about all forms of abuse would question how much control this man has over this woman.

This said, I hope they both go to prison for a very long time and are never given the chance to have another child, either of them. Coercive control or not, most mothers would put their baby before their partner, this woman couldn’t/wouldn’t and seems to be very much still under his thrall, so she’s learned nothing. She must understand that her actions led to the death of her tiny baby. That poor, poor baby girl.