Think of this: a plan to ‘warehouse’ disabled people.

[SerendipityJane]

maybe just send them to Rwanda ? Out of sight, out of mind etc ...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/25/warehouse-disabled-people-bristol-city-council

Couldn’t read the whole article but given the cost of care homes isn’t this going to be the more expensive option

I think it is likely to be a decision many of us have to make for ourselves and our loved ones at some point

Warehousing is quite emotive language for care homes. Government money is funded by tax payers, and its currently massively underfunded. As tax payers we have to either streamline services or dig quite a lot deeper and increase personal tax. An individual having their personal home, personal bills and expenses as well as full time carers paid for by the tax payer vs being in a care setting where multiple people can be accommodated and attended quickly and efficiently would be a fraction of the cost. He can still be an important, valued and active member of the community living from a care home.

You are missing the point.

Some disabled people in their 30s need the support of a PA to carry on living independently. That’s not going to be ‘a decision most of us will have to do’. Not unless you are expecting most people to have someone in their family become so disabled/ill.

Are you really saying that it’s ok to lock someone in an ‘institution’ from their 30s until their death? All down to cost?
Because you need to be realistic, if someone needs a PA, they’ll also have issues moving around so won’t be able to get out from said ‘care home’. They’ll get less benefits (like PIP) so will be even more stranded financially. Etc etc….

It’s a simple way to force families into looking after their loved ones for nothing (even more so than now).

He can still be an important, valued and active member of the community living from a care home.

Could you explain how?
im really curious.

Could you explain why not? It's a home, not a prison.

@Tempnamechng because we are talking about people disabled enough to need support to live independently.

How do you expect that person to go out and about in the outside world if they need help for the most basic things!p?
How will they be able to buy let’s say an electric wheelchair to move around if they dint receive benefits because they are in a care home so don’t need them? Or a car? Or a taxi?

How can you be an ‘active member of the society’ when your needs are supported on one location - the care home but nowhere else?

It sounds like you don’t quite realise how disabled some people are tbh.

You've either got no experience or interactions with disabled people or you've had an empathy bypass!

As a blind and disabled person who functions extremely well in society I find ideas like yours I incredulous; I actually pity you.

@FFSNHS thank you.

Care in the community was all the rage years ago, but that's equally not suitable for everyone. Disabled people living alone with carers coming in to get them up and put them to bed with no interaction with people between the two. Many of those people would like to be in residential care with people around all of the time to help them, and just to be able to talk to other residents. It's not a one cap fits all situation. It would be best if each individual could choose how they want to be cared for, but like everything else where does the money come from?

An individual having their personal home, personal bills and expenses as well as full time carers paid for by the tax payer vs being in a care setting where multiple people can be accommodated and attended quickly and efficiently would be a fraction of the cost

And they would have a fraction of the personal autonomy.

Would be happy to have your autonomy taken away @Tempnamechng ?

I often think this would be better applied to MPs - much cheaper for the taxpayer to have them all live together in a central London 'home' where costs are shared, rather than subsidising their outrageous home expenses individually.

Absolutely utterly horrendous and the gentleman in the article has a huge point with his speech and how it's only really his PAs who are tuned in enough to understand it most of the time (and also the same for those non-verbal communication signals - where it's people who know their client incredibly well who are able to realise a slight change in their eyes or tiny volume change in their vocalisations means they're distressed)... with the staff turnover in care homes - the chances of people being able to build that kind of relationships in many cases (I know exceptions who've worked in the same home with individuals for over a decade but they're usually real exceptions) are slim... which is going to mean a massively reduced quality of life, increased distress behaviour and people being referred into NHS community services as a result of that - and despite best efforts, increasing use of medication to manage behaviour that shouldn't be an issue if communication needs were being met.

Sounds brutal but for every great home or supported living I go into where communication aids are being used, advice stuck to and done across the board with staffing - there are another three where the aids are lost, advice has been filed and they just want psychiatry out with a prescription pad really - and it's bloody soul destroying.... and there are NOT enough placements and NOT ENOUGH staff who actually want to work in care with the current crappy status and conditions to cover the situation as it currently is.

I've met some incredible individuals with often incredibly complex physical and cognitive needs who are living amazing lives supported in their own homes by teams of PAs and they should bloody well have the right to do so - they're often the people who make LESS demand on NHS services because their living setup actually works to meet their needs and keep their quality of life going. it is an incredibly rare care home that provides that same level of person-centred care - there's a meme going around at the moment with something about "it's amazing that all 6 people in this group home all have a love for McDonalds and bowling as their activities of choice on their person-centred plan" and that's what kind of happens in lots of the best-case scenarios.

Fucking hell. Some of the views on this thread are frightening. There really are people who think disabled people are a lesser type of human.

Care homes are awful places. I would do anything to avoid going into one. I worked in them long enough to know how they work, how the staff operate and what the environment is like.

Warehousing?

Sounds suspiciously like concentrating people somewhere to me. Especially with the working bit as well.

I just think if it's done properly it could work. Probably such a home wouldn't exist in many areas, but if you had a set up a little like the assisted living complex near to where I live, it's like a village. Its incredibly sociable just safer and a much more affordable. Everyone has a mini self sufficient apartment and can be as independent or looked after as they need to be according to individual needs. They can get out and about just as easily from this sort of place as they can from a house in an average residential area. I never suggested they shouldn't have personal money for taxis etc.

It's a building full of people you don't know and perhaps wouldn't normally want to be with. You get a SMALL bedroom, not big enough for many possessions or room for hobbies, inviting friends round, being, disturbed constantly, no right to a private life (staff can enter your space at any to, unannounced, day or night. What about right to a private sex life? Have to eat from a set menu for perhaps the next 50 years!

Would you honestly trade your independent fulfilling dssardinvice for that? In your 20s or 30s? Or your 50s or 60s? I'd rather kill myself.

@SerendipityJane@SerendipityJane sorry I dont k is how your name has tagged and it won't let me delete it.

Because like care in the community it'll be done on the cheap ie understaffed.

If you've ever been in hospital for more than 5 minutes you'll have seen that it's staff heavy especially in the morning and evening. As hospitals are understaffed people aren't washed and dressed at a sensible time. If you think that an institution would be different you're naïve.

Since we are all about saving money ....

It won't be done properly though. Who is going to provide the money, staff etc.

Despite the emotive language there must be some room for exploration of better systems in a sector which is never going to be able to provide a perfect solution.
If standards were high it seems sensible to have this as an option for some groups. The need for support for disabled, elderly, mentally ill is already overwhelming and likely to increase.
Looking at practical options doesn’t mean someone is evil. It’s difficult but do you realistically think society can provide the quality care all people would ideally be able to get in their own homes?

If it was so great you would find people living in communes all over the place. If institutional living was so fun then far more people would send there children to boarding schools.

I have a child who will not ever live independently. What would help is transparency, and consistency. What can the state provide, what can’t they. What can be done with that funding and what can’t. The ability to save and plan and is massively impacted by all of this. People can only stand on their own if the floor is solid and they can see where they are going.

The reason home care costs more is because it gives you control. Especially if you need full time support. We all know in elderly care homes they never have the right ratios and there was a thread last week about residents having one shower a week because that’s all staff could manage.

Now tell a person who’s had a massive stroke in their 40s lives in their own home and garden with their pets. Who’s staff mean they can eat, drink, go to toilet, wash whenever they like. That they are going in a care home and doesn’t matter how many times they ring the bell no one is coming. In fact they probably move the bell away.

No choice over your food or drinks you get what you are given, no choice over bed time. It’s 6pm but you have to be in bed before night shift comes on. Want to go down pub or met with friend there is no chance as they take all your benefits and income so you can’t even fund your own mobility car.

People really don’t care if you think that’s acceptable. It is possible to live well and happy with chronic sickness and disability even though it’s not easy. Imagine any diagnoises coming with this news and your life really is over. The reason it’s cheaper is because you get far far less care and it’s not right.