Think of this: a plan to ‘warehouse’ disabled people.

[SerendipityJane]

maybe just send them to Rwanda ? Out of sight, out of mind etc ...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/25/warehouse-disabled-people-bristol-city-council

I read this article and cried. The idea that my beautiful, hard working daughter could be institutionalised because of government/council mismanagement is devastating.

I now feel sicker after reading posts on this thread that think it's acceptable.

It is never acceptable to hide people with disabilities away from the community. To not allow them the chance to live as close a life to typical as possible. Society is better than this.

And what about all the disabled people who work? Shove them in a care home and that's their working life over. What about disabled people with partners, with children?

It's already happening. I knew a single mum who passed away last year. She was the main carer for her 18 year old son who is completely power wheelchair dependent, needs hoisting etc but was at college and doing well.

She had no family left deemed capable of caring for him by social services and SS plan for him was a care home. An 18 year old boy on his own, no family, just lost his mum, living in a care home for elderly people.

She spent her last few months of life attending meetings trying to arrange an alternative provision for him and died with no firm plan for him other than "care home". Those around him (friends and charities) are still fighting tooth and nail to get him into a specialist residential college (who have said they have space) that has been deemed too expensive by the council.

I think calling it a plan - which suggests thoughtful planning - is giving this uncaring government way too much credit.

It's vile but I completely agree with the suggestion up thread about making mps live in a community share. They're the ones claiming for second houses not asking for someone to come in twice a day to make them a sandwich and give them their meds.

You have no idea how the system works.

1- if you are in hospital, you lose your PIP. So I’m pretty sure you’d lose it too if you were in a care home as it will be ‘specially adapted to you’. These people will have no money as far as I can see. Not even sure if you could claim UC in a care home fir example (you’re fed and housed afterall right?)

2- you really didn’t read my post. Someone who is unable to get out of their house wo a carer/PA is not going to be able to go out of a care home on their own. The care home isn’t going to provide someone so they can get out!
So yes, be default, they’ll be trapped in the facility.

As for such a facility being ‘like a little village’ …. You’re talking about assisted living with people who are still independent (eg they can cook). Not a care home. Very different situation and not what they are wanting to implement.

I think it’s a bit naive to think most disabled people currently live as this gentleman does. When I worked for care in the community there were a lot of disabled people left on sofas with a continence pad on and the TV on in between calls (half an hour morning and evening, fifteen minutes lunch / tea.)

The aim was always to do everything as fast as possible so that was probably more like 20 mins morning and evening and 10 lunch / tea. You could have your lunch call at 1 then tea at 3, up at 6 am, or bed at 7 pm. Compared to that I do think many would have preferred an environment with staff on call and able to socialise and do activities with others. But I do know some care homes are terrible too.

If it was so great you would find people living in communes all over the place. If institutional living was so fun then far more people would send there children to boarding schools.

Very good point.

Far as I remember once you are in care you get £20 a month to live on they take everything else. So even your PIP mobility goes towards care package. In some homes will say it pays for group mini bus etc but never staff to take you anywhere.

that £20 is to have a family and social life. Buy all clothes, shoes, slippers, any food or snack you like. Want Netflix because you are going crazy sat there that’s £7.99 please. Want run a basic mobile that’s another £10 a month gone. This is why disabled people now end up having shampoo and soap on prescription because can’t even afford buy their own.

anyone thinks they are going get all care they need and have any income to make even basic decisions over their life as a 18y old or a 50y well the country can’t afford it suck it up (apparently)

Just here to post a reminder to a depressing number of posters that the tax bill for disabled people pales into complete insignificance compared with the amount the Tories send to their mates for corrupt schemes that don't exist like PPE supplies and ferries.

The members of our society who are disabled deserve to live with dignity and as much freedom of opportunity as we can possibly manage to provide for them.

It is not the same as being elderly or infirm (and those people deserve the same things too anyway)

you really think living in a nursing homes means you get more care than at home? That any time you press the bell you get immediate attention, I’ve got news for you.

The biggest issue with those proposals is of course that they will never be able to cater for each individual needs.
People will be treated like one uniform group, fitting in with what they can do rather than what is best.

So the person who has communication issues? Ha well…tough. You can’t expect staff to spend that much time trying to understand
The person with ME that needs silence? Nope. They have to be out in the common room with everyone else.
The person with motor neurone disease what struggles with swallowing? Can’t be behind them all the time
The one who knows they feel awful if they eat gluten? Tough. They don’t have an allergy so they should eat whatever we give them.

I agree.
I also think we need to have a really serious conversation about care going forward. It's not even just about the money, it's about just not having enough people to provide the care. Much of the world is going to face huge demographic challenges very soon (or now). I don't know what the solution is but I don't think it's going to be pretty.

@Kendodd i agree it’s actually quite scary.

And I dont believe it’s going to get better because of how ableist our society is. It’s running deep. Very deep.
And more importantly, most people don’t feel it could happen to them. Fools. We are all so close to being disabled/ill for life. And no a lot of disabled people can’t ’overcome’ Their disability either.

He'll just be living somewhere else, rather than in his own home, in a shared home

He says he wont be able to watch tv in a care home, of course he will, he would have a telly in his room. He wouldnt be a prisoner, he will go out and do his social work and school governor role. It would have to be a condition of his care package that he is supported to do that.

He says that no one in the care home will be able to understand his speech, but they will learn in the same way his current PA learnt.

I think however Im not overall in favour of this for people with his level of functioning but what I would say is that he is lucky he has that level of support, very few adults with LD/MH do have that level of support and care in the community as a policy has failed massively, it fails the individual and it fails society.

I dont know what the full answer is as the public do not want to fund this at all.

The start of the answer is better education and health provision for disabled people. This idea that you can be sat in a corner with a TA tolerated but not educated and then spend your life gratefully on benefits with, if you’re lucky, a job in a charity shop or cafe is pants. FFS a little ambition to do more than just be “not breaking the law” and a little drive towards excellence would go a long way. So much wasted opportunity and potential.

He wouldnt be a prisoner, he will go out and do his social work and school governor role. It would have to be a condition of his care package that he is supported to do that.

The whole point is get away with care packages because that means 1-1 and it’s too expensive! 😂😂

He says that no one in the care home will be able to understand his speech, but they will learn in the same way his current PA learnt.
Thats only true if you have the same person looking after him regularly. Which is probably not going to happen (staff rotation, variation in shifts, size of the care home etc etc).
Plus that’s assuming they have the time and wish to make that effort.
(aka you have no idea how hard it has been for him to find someone who can understand him. If he has been going through 10 or 20 PA/carer before finding that person, he might well have very good reasons to think like this).

Maybe @soupfiend , your starting point should be to ,listen to the disabled person and accept their reality rather than assume they know nothing about their own life/experience and therefore are wrong about their expectations.

Ive already said that I wouldnt be in support of a plan like this for someone like the article writer

However, I also dont have to agree or go along with someones views, just like someone doesnt have to go along with mine.

Ultimately there is a comparison here to elderly care homes, where the vast majority may not have capacity so are kept safer by way of being in one place, homes for people with disabilities are often different and while three will be a number of staff, there are often regular assigned key workers.

At the end of the day, unless the public specifically want public services to be better and specify things like childresn and adults social care, specialist school places, preventative health interventions, its not going to happen. And for the past 30 years, it hasnt happened.

We need a wealth tax

We have more than enough money to support vulnerable people, fund health care effectively, create school places, have social housing built for the people that need it

What we dont have, and have never had since possibly the 50s is the political will to put it in place. We also have dismantled the systems which would have allowe for those things to be staffed effectively. Even if the goverment suddnely put a load of money in the pot for more GPs for example, where are the GPs coming from? They dont exist, like dentists and nurses and police officers and teachers and social workers.

There is a belief that public services should be run like businesses and when that fails because they're not businesses, the public are up in arms at 'waste' because they dont understand what it takes to run things

People wanted tendering and commissioning but then dont want it because it hasnt worked.

or less disabled.

Less disabled what?

Do they mean ‘fewer’ disabled?

I think we need more literate people but there you are

Wow what sort of society where everyone is measured in costs. You are worth it and another person isn't. Where there is a growing number of billionaires and multi millionnaires yet people who are disabled face cuts because the richer amongst us need to keep more money than they can possibly need.

The country is gradually eroding what's important bit by bit. Its sad.

The sign of a good society is how it treats its poor and vulnerable. Shame on us.

Well that SOUNDS lovely, but in all honesty is likely only available to the wealthy. Because something like that is going to cost big bucks. Probably more than the at home care is costing.
Like retirement villages - again a nice idea if you can afford it, but most people cannot.
The reality is that this is due to cost cutting, so the cheapest option is going to happen.
Currently you will be assessed and have a budget that you can use to bring in your own help - YOU get to choose who that person is, what they do and when. If you receive PIP as well (which is non means tested) and enhanced mobility, then you can use that for a vehicle, including adapted ones, so you can get out and about. If you are able to work, then your assessed care funding may be reduced, but again, you have the autonomy.

Currently if you have little income to pay for care, then you may be reliant upon Adult social care to provide the care in your own home. Up to 4 times a day, probably 30mins. That is the max. They wont use the value of your home whilst you live there, or while a spouse lives there, but will take into account any PIP you get. You wont really get a say as to when you get up or go to bed, or when you get fed.

Once you get moved into residential care the council will want your home sold to pay for care. Its unlikely you will meet the threshold for your care to be paid for by the NHS, you can literally be days from death and it not qualify. Once your house is sold and those funds used up, or you lived in rented, they will take all your PIP, any other benefits, any savings over a set amount, and leave you the grand total of £34.50 for personal use. You wont be getting many taxis out of that - especially if you also need to pay for someone to go with you, or an adapted car to take you.

Assisted living flats and supported living homes with very small numbers of residents are currently available, and many disabled people already live in them. But this is seemingly too expensive.