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SerendipityJane · 25/01/2024 11:04

Wow what sort of society where everyone is measured in costs. You are worth it and another person isn't.

The sort of society we have chosen to live in. Well not all of us have chosen. But "will of the people" and all that.

OP posts:
AliceA2021 · 25/01/2024 11:05

People with severe learning disabilities don't have a voice. They are at a major disadvantage. The people with physical disabilities can at least fight their corner and society should listen. Does society even care? What have we become. Its all about monet.

Citrusandginger · 25/01/2024 11:06

There's not a one size model here, but I would like to see some quality communal living options as part of the mix. The sort of supported bungalow complexes that existed for younger disabled people before [don't] care in in the community. Many of these had their issues, not least abuse and safeguarding scandals, but the better ones offered a balance of independence and support.

The private care home I chose for my late DM had a small kitchen-diner in her studio type room, meaning when she first moved in she could get her own breakfast and snacks, then join other residents for main meals and social activities. We were also able to have meals together when we visited.

Isolation and loneliness are significant issues for people with long term disabilities and while there are brilliant, caring, capable PAs who make a significant difference to individuals lives, there is little oversight. Sadly there are too many who don't have enough experience or training to do the best job, In my view it's another abuse scandal coming down the track. Care on the cheap, doesn't work.

LimitedButStillAliveAndKicking · 25/01/2024 11:09

Some of you fuckers on this thread better hope karma in any form doesn't exist. I was mid thirties, happily married with 3DC when routine surgery went dramatically wrong. It was an op I was told would require only an overnight stay because I was young, not overweight and otherwise healthy. Someone has to be that tiny complication risk.
From life support in ICU to home took months and overnight I became disabled.
I didn't drink alcohol, smoke and lead a healthy lifestyle. I went from healthy to 'life limited' in the blink of an eye. I'm fortunate I have a supportive DH, family and friends, otherwise this scenario could be me. I'd rather be dead.

BelindaOkra · 25/01/2024 11:09

Tempnamechng · 25/01/2024 08:42

Warehousing is quite emotive language for care homes. Government money is funded by tax payers, and its currently massively underfunded. As tax payers we have to either streamline services or dig quite a lot deeper and increase personal tax. An individual having their personal home, personal bills and expenses as well as full time carers paid for by the tax payer vs being in a care setting where multiple people can be accommodated and attended quickly and efficiently would be a fraction of the cost. He can still be an important, valued and active member of the community living from a care home.

My son lives in his own home with 24 hour 2:1 care. He current team have worked with him for a long time. The last people to join the team joined in 2022. They know him well - which when you are non-verbal is important. He receives housing benefit and which pays for his house via a housing association. His house was bought and paid for by the NHS which means it is highly suitable for him and his needs and is a very secure tenancy. He goes out every day and sees us when he wants - I have been to his house this morning. It’s 5 minutes from us.

Prior to this he lived in a care home. He had agency staff regularly who did not know him so could not communicate with him - this led to distressed behaviours. The company served him with 13 days notice so he ended up being booted out of his home and staff at the same time. He came to us for a bit but that meant his schools aged siblings (and family dog) had to move out. An emergency package was tried which lasted less than 24 hours and he was sent with 3 hours notice 8 hours from home to a hospital where he stayed for a year and a half (at a cost to the NHS of 12k a week - would be 15k a week now).

In The hospital he was regularly floor restrained by 5 people. His psychiatrist was pretty good so he escaped some or the shit that happens in those places but 3 people he was there with died and the hospital was closed by the CQC eventually.

Before being sent to the hospital he had never been away from me for more than 3 days. He had no idea he was even going. He got in the car expecting t to go to the local hospital - not an 8 hour drive. Some of his peers were transported in cages. I know someone who fed her son sweets through the bars of a cage at service stations. These are not psychopaths - they are people with learning disabilities who were no appropriately supported - often happening as they turned 18 and the support of school & respite etc fell away.

My don’t life now is unrecognisable from the days of restraint. He’s not been floor restrained since leaving hospital. Today he’ll go out this morning, come home for home made soup, maybe go out or chill at home witn his team and have another home this evening. He may pop over to ours to raid the fridge. Earlier this week he sat at a beach cafe and watched a storm for half an hour.

If he was moved to a care home I can guarantee that within a month he would be back in hospital at huge cost to the NHS and back to imprisonment for him.

If you think that chappy in the article will be able to carry on doing what he does - such as being a school governor - in a care home then i can tell you now that will stop within a week. There won’t be the staff. And there won’t be the continuity of care to have the interpreter in the staff team. That‘a the reality of care home life. This isn’t someone at the end of their life who does little except watch TV - this is an active involved man.

Disabled people have the same right to a life as everyone else.

I recommend googling Rightful Lives to see the reality of institutionalised care. Will link in next post.

SerendipityJane · 25/01/2024 11:11

Disabled people have the same right to a life as everyone else.

An interesting point of view.

OP posts:
AliceA2021 · 25/01/2024 11:12

LimitedButStillAliveAndKicking · 25/01/2024 11:09

Some of you fuckers on this thread better hope karma in any form doesn't exist. I was mid thirties, happily married with 3DC when routine surgery went dramatically wrong. It was an op I was told would require only an overnight stay because I was young, not overweight and otherwise healthy. Someone has to be that tiny complication risk.
From life support in ICU to home took months and overnight I became disabled.
I didn't drink alcohol, smoke and lead a healthy lifestyle. I went from healthy to 'life limited' in the blink of an eye. I'm fortunate I have a supportive DH, family and friends, otherwise this scenario could be me. I'd rather be dead.

I'm sorry that some are so uncaring.

Until it affects them or a loved one many don't care its awful. It could happen to anyone or a child born with a disability.

Our country appears to focus more on money and less on empathy for others.

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 25/01/2024 11:13

Interesting??

marmaladeandpeanutbutter · 25/01/2024 11:14

"Our country appears to focus more on money and less on empathy for others."

Profit,more like. Really disgusting.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 25/01/2024 11:14

Tempnamechng · 25/01/2024 08:42

Warehousing is quite emotive language for care homes. Government money is funded by tax payers, and its currently massively underfunded. As tax payers we have to either streamline services or dig quite a lot deeper and increase personal tax. An individual having their personal home, personal bills and expenses as well as full time carers paid for by the tax payer vs being in a care setting where multiple people can be accommodated and attended quickly and efficiently would be a fraction of the cost. He can still be an important, valued and active member of the community living from a care home.

Would you be happy to be forced to live in an institution where the state gets to decide when you can go out and what you can eat?

AliceA2021 · 25/01/2024 11:15

BelindaOkra · 25/01/2024 11:09

My son lives in his own home with 24 hour 2:1 care. He current team have worked with him for a long time. The last people to join the team joined in 2022. They know him well - which when you are non-verbal is important. He receives housing benefit and which pays for his house via a housing association. His house was bought and paid for by the NHS which means it is highly suitable for him and his needs and is a very secure tenancy. He goes out every day and sees us when he wants - I have been to his house this morning. It’s 5 minutes from us.

Prior to this he lived in a care home. He had agency staff regularly who did not know him so could not communicate with him - this led to distressed behaviours. The company served him with 13 days notice so he ended up being booted out of his home and staff at the same time. He came to us for a bit but that meant his schools aged siblings (and family dog) had to move out. An emergency package was tried which lasted less than 24 hours and he was sent with 3 hours notice 8 hours from home to a hospital where he stayed for a year and a half (at a cost to the NHS of 12k a week - would be 15k a week now).

In The hospital he was regularly floor restrained by 5 people. His psychiatrist was pretty good so he escaped some or the shit that happens in those places but 3 people he was there with died and the hospital was closed by the CQC eventually.

Before being sent to the hospital he had never been away from me for more than 3 days. He had no idea he was even going. He got in the car expecting t to go to the local hospital - not an 8 hour drive. Some of his peers were transported in cages. I know someone who fed her son sweets through the bars of a cage at service stations. These are not psychopaths - they are people with learning disabilities who were no appropriately supported - often happening as they turned 18 and the support of school & respite etc fell away.

My don’t life now is unrecognisable from the days of restraint. He’s not been floor restrained since leaving hospital. Today he’ll go out this morning, come home for home made soup, maybe go out or chill at home witn his team and have another home this evening. He may pop over to ours to raid the fridge. Earlier this week he sat at a beach cafe and watched a storm for half an hour.

If he was moved to a care home I can guarantee that within a month he would be back in hospital at huge cost to the NHS and back to imprisonment for him.

If you think that chappy in the article will be able to carry on doing what he does - such as being a school governor - in a care home then i can tell you now that will stop within a week. There won’t be the staff. And there won’t be the continuity of care to have the interpreter in the staff team. That‘a the reality of care home life. This isn’t someone at the end of their life who does little except watch TV - this is an active involved man.

Disabled people have the same right to a life as everyone else.

I recommend googling Rightful Lives to see the reality of institutionalised care. Will link in next post.

This.

LemonShirts · 25/01/2024 11:16

DH aunt was very disabled (DS) she wasn’t independent at all.
When she had to move into care initially she was in a care home which she loved. She loved the residents and the activities and the shared social space.
But they decided she needed to live ‘independently’ so was put in a tiny flat in a complex. Which was fine when there was lots of money/staff for a while but when cuts started she was left on her own a lot. She couldn’t make herself a drink or food. She couldn’t read or write. They wanted her to plan her own meals and go shopping for food. It was all very staff heavy and not appropriate, she just couldn’t learn. She had never been to school and didn’t have any skills.
100% she was better off in the care home, she needed company not to be taught things.

BelindaOkra · 25/01/2024 11:18

Oh and yes - when my son was in the care home he was given £25 a week to live on (everything else is taken).

Now he has ESA & PIP. Most disabled people pay a hefty chunk of their benefits to the LA to pay towards their care. The one benefit of being sent to hospital for so long that he gets to keep it (& anyway is now health funded due to his complexity so would keep it anyway) & therefore has his benefits to spend on himself.

AliceA2021 · 25/01/2024 11:19

SerendipityJane · 25/01/2024 11:04

Wow what sort of society where everyone is measured in costs. You are worth it and another person isn't.

The sort of society we have chosen to live in. Well not all of us have chosen. But "will of the people" and all that.

It needn't be this way. When people at the bottom would rather pay one need off against another to save money and the people in society who are super rich watch, laugh and count their money.

Hunger games where The Capital get fat and the masses get the leavings. Yes many accept and don't fight back. Some actively support the divide in society for crumbs from the top. I guess we are all responsible since we can vote.

Where do you fit?

NettleTea · 25/01/2024 11:20

I dont know what the full answer is as the public do not want to fund this at all.

because there has been a concerted effort to demonise the disabled as scroungers on the make, costing a fortune that would otherwise make 'hard working tax payers' lives a utopian dream.

@BelindaOkra your experience, I hope, wakes a few people up

And yes. Profits as the bottom line. And people too damn stupid to see that there for the grace of God......

The wealthy, who make these laws, will never have to face these circumstances. I bet 100% that David Cameron's son wont be shipped off to a 'warehouse' (and no more should he)

IHS · 25/01/2024 11:20

SerendipityJane · 25/01/2024 11:11

Disabled people have the same right to a life as everyone else.

An interesting point of view.

What are you trying to say? You also posted that there could be fewer disabled people. I hope you're not meaning what I think you are.

You do realise that you could be one of those disabled people this time tomorrow? Stroke, car accident, sudden catastrophic illness......don't think it couldn't happen I was a disability/elderly/palliative care nurse for 30 years.

BelindaOkra · 25/01/2024 11:22

SerendipityJane · 25/01/2024 11:11

Disabled people have the same right to a life as everyone else.

An interesting point of view.

Would you care to expand?

spanishviola · 25/01/2024 11:22

Yalta · 25/01/2024 08:02

Couldn’t read the whole article but given the cost of care homes isn’t this going to be the more expensive option

No it won’t be as personal care for someone who needs an assistant is much more expensive.

SwordToFlamethrower · 25/01/2024 11:23

JustExistingNotLiving · 25/01/2024 09:46

You have no idea how the system works.

1- if you are in hospital, you lose your PIP. So I’m pretty sure you’d lose it too if you were in a care home as it will be ‘specially adapted to you’. These people will have no money as far as I can see. Not even sure if you could claim UC in a care home fir example (you’re fed and housed afterall right?)

2- you really didn’t read my post. Someone who is unable to get out of their house wo a carer/PA is not going to be able to go out of a care home on their own. The care home isn’t going to provide someone so they can get out!
So yes, be default, they’ll be trapped in the facility.

As for such a facility being ‘like a little village’ …. You’re talking about assisted living with people who are still independent (eg they can cook). Not a care home. Very different situation and not what they are wanting to implement.

They won't be able to have a smart phone as they will have no money to pay for it. No access to the Internet. Which means no voice. They won't be able to raise awareness of any abuse or suffering to wider society. They will be trapped.

Might as well be a concentration camp or prison.

Anyone who thinks this is a good idea need to think again. If something happens to you and you need support, would you be happy to have your freedom and liberty taken away because "cost"?

SwordToFlamethrower · 25/01/2024 11:28

SerendipityJane · 25/01/2024 11:11

Disabled people have the same right to a life as everyone else.

An interesting point of view.

Why is that an interesting point of view?

BelindaOkra · 25/01/2024 11:32

Incidentally a lot of care is now run by large corporates. The organisation that booted my son out leading to his hospitalisation had just taken over and is run by hedge fund managers. There’s an element of asset stripping going on. They booted the decent managers out just before my son got the heave ho.

A Lot of the hospitals warehousing people with learning disabilities are owned by corporates, with a lot of the NHS cash going straight into these corporate, often American owned companies. There have been plenty of documentaries on this.

The organisation that supports him now is tiny. No corporates. No-one driving expensive cars. No hedge funds.

Maybe supporting small organisations who provide quality care is a better way than chuckling huge sums at large American owned corporates.

SwordToFlamethrower · 25/01/2024 11:40

Have you all actually read the article?

KnittedCardi · 25/01/2024 11:41

soupfiend · 25/01/2024 10:55

We have more than enough money to support vulnerable people, fund health care effectively, create school places, have social housing built for the people that need it

What we dont have, and have never had since possibly the 50s is the political will to put it in place. We also have dismantled the systems which would have allowe for those things to be staffed effectively. Even if the goverment suddnely put a load of money in the pot for more GPs for example, where are the GPs coming from? They dont exist, like dentists and nurses and police officers and teachers and social workers.

There is a belief that public services should be run like businesses and when that fails because they're not businesses, the public are up in arms at 'waste' because they dont understand what it takes to run things

People wanted tendering and commissioning but then dont want it because it hasnt worked.

Actually we don't. We don't even have enough money to support the next generation of elderly, let alone disabled, although there is a crossover. Every single government in the world faces the same problems. So, rather than more money, what is the solution?

The 1950's were a world away from where we are now. Different life expectancies, different demographics, needing a different solution.

OrangeHoney · 25/01/2024 11:43

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