Think of this: a plan to ‘warehouse’ disabled people.

[SerendipityJane]

maybe just send them to Rwanda ? Out of sight, out of mind etc ...

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/25/warehouse-disabled-people-bristol-city-council

You are wrong about all of this. What care home has enough staff to take a resident to all the events and activities they are used to? They might need a. specialist vehicle for their wheelchair, they might need someone with them all the time. How are they going to communicate at their events if they don’t have a PA to translate for them. The care staff can’t spend 2 -3 hours with the resident while they do this stuff on a regular basis. Haven’t you been reading about the crisis in the care industry? There is a massive shortage, staff work long shifts for not very good pay and they are rushed off their feet. There is a turnover of staff so at night he is more likely than not to have someone who just doesn’t understand him so his needs not met.

I think you are completely deluded as to the level of care that some disabled people need. I’ve seen how care homes work, and good ones at that, and they still don’t have enough staff for that level of support. So the resident will be stuck in his room or in the common room without his interests and hobbies, unable to participate in the things that make life meaningful for him. Everyone has a right to that. It’s different thing at the end of life when you are losing your abilities but it is still difficult for people to adjust. I wouldn’t wish it on a younger person.

The whole point of care in the community and personal assistants for the most severely disabled was about quality of life, giving those people the chance to make their own choices in their own environment. It’s appalling that consideration is being given to reversing that because of our hopeless government. They’ve really starved the councils of money and this is the result. It’s got to change.

The whole point is that it costs less

A lot less

Which means you get less

Its rare that you can get more or even the same for less money

The main costs are things like personal support will now be shared support so it can't possibly be the same and I'll bet it will be the bare minimum for survival not the level required to help someone live

And when costs are squished things break and go wrong , corners get cut

It's awful

I have, why are you asking?

He wouldnt be a prisoner, he will go out and do his social work and school governor role. It would have to be a condition of his care package that he is supported to do that.

He says that no one in the care home will be able to understand his speech, but they will learn in the same way his current PA learnt.

it is so extremely naive or willfully ignorant of you to think that this would be his reality. I'm not sure which. But it doesn't happen for elderly people who are paying top whack out of their own pockets in care homes, why on earth do you think it would happen for a disabled person who is funded by a government who has stripped all services right back?

I know when I did care in the community we had a couple of younger people in their 30s/40s. The idea they had choices because they lived in their own home is naive at best.

We showed up, they’d have a longer call a couple of times a week for a shower if lucky. One lady never got to shower because her home wasn’t adapted for it. Cereal or toast, plonked on sofa or in wheelchair, tv on, shoot off to the next call. Back at 12, sandwich, crisps, pad change, shoot off again. Repeat at 4 for a microwave meal, back at bed, repeat.

I don’t for a moment think that things are necessarily better in care homes but I dint think they are worse. However the disabled people living with full time PAs who understand them aren’t in the majority I wouldn’t have thought.

The problem is always that care based jobs - of children or the elderly or disabled - aren’t valued so aren’t paid accordingly. That’s a problem that transcends different governments and political views. It’s not so much a Tory issue as a feminist one.

Also why are we talking exclusively about care homes? I think the premise is for more bespoke assisted living communities. They already exist. There have been some built locally recently, alongside other standard new builds. You have a little square or road, with individual flats or houses, within a wider community, so completely self sufficient and built to order, with on-site and daily assistance. So, you are still independent, can work, have access to everything you want, in your own time but also have access to 24/7 support.

Well, I knew someone with cerebral palsy who was severely disabled and he had a personal assistant. He was very well cared for, was taken out on a regular basis as I often used to see him on the street in his wheelchair. Personal assistants are entirely different to care in the community. i also have a friend who worked in this capacity and he would attend his young man’s social groups in the evening, go to the theatre with him etc.

I think you are talking about personal care visits up to four times a day. I agree they aren’t sufficient but it isn’t the same as a PA. You wouldn’t see those people in your capacity. The funding for the assistants is decided with the council and the assistant is interviewed by the recipient and family. It’s a full time job for many, or sometimes for a set number of hours a week, my friend worked 16, for example, but my friend with cerebral palsy had someone there 24 hours a day.

Those who need dom care (what you are describing) will continue to get it. Becuase it is cheaper than a care home. This article is about people who live in their own homes with their own team. The level of care is world’s apart from that received in a care home - although still varies depending on how much the care company values things like relationships. My son’s company never uses agency staff for example. Not once in the 5 years he has been with them. Which is a large part of why he isn’t spending his life on a locked ward.

His company also match people. So he is supported by a bunch of young men similar in age to him - rather than a load of middle aged women (doesn’t work).

Good care is about treating people as individuals and providing them with a care package that suits their needs and wishes and what they want to do. For some (not many, but some) that may be best achieved in a care home. But most people prefer to live in their own home rather than an institution.

And when I say most people prefer to live in their own home rather than institution I am not just talking about those with disabilities. I certainly prefer living in my own home. Whenever I have been in hospital I have been desperate to get home. Even when given my own room.

I would also like to say that for those who have said that care in the community isn’t adequate (including myself) I had very good care when I had a short term illness and was eligible for 3 weeks care. The carer came for 45 minutes every morning, showered me, got me dressed and made me breakfast and then back in the evening. I’ve seen worse care than that and maybe I was just lucky but sometimes it can work well.

The wealthy, who make these laws, will never have to face these circumstances. I bet 100% that David Cameron's son wont be shipped off to a 'warehouse' (and no more should he)

@NettleTea That’s a safe bet considering that David Cameron’s son, Ivan, died in 2009 at just six years old.

Yes, exactly this.

It seems that a lot of people on this thread have very specific opinions/experience of care in the community. The man in the article seems to have a pretty good set up. My experience of “care in the community” (from the point of view of a healthcare professional for 32 years) is often very different. I see many elderly and disabled people who supposedly have a care package that meets their needs at home. But it actually involves brief rushed visits by unknown carers on minimum wage, desperately trying to tick the boxes (wash, feed, change pad etc) in the allotted 15 minutes, before hurrying off to the next place.

A friend of mine has a disabled adult son who lives in a residential home that consists of small flats, each housing 4 adults with varying degrees of disability, and staffed accordingly. They have trips out, group activities, individual activities, and so on. If he lived alone he would watch TV all day except when he got his allotted carer time.

So I think it’s wrong to assume that home care = good, and residential care = bad. They both have good and bad points, and there’s no reason not to explore different options.

I am shocked!! How many Tory spooks are there on this thread? 😧

It's a tricky one isn't it, @BelindaOkra, it's great that your son is living the life he is, it would be wonderful if all people with his needs were supported in such a way. It's not even a money question though, it's a human resources question.

24hr 2:1 care is six full-time staff, plus any holiday/sickness cover needed. There's already a staffing crisis in care, and with people living longer and medical advances meaning that people are surviving accidents and illnesses that would previously have killed them, care needs are only ever going to increase. Where are all the people needed to provide this level of support going to come from?

I honestly don't have an answer, but it's certainly a necessary conversation.

To the PP who mentioned David Cameron's son, he most certainly won't be 'shipped off' anywhere as he died in 2009.

The psychiatric hospitals of old used to have ballrooms and other social activities. One I know of had a small holding with animals.
Im not saying that they were great places, but perhaps not the concentration camp style places that the article might lead you to think of.

My mother in law lives in an assisted living facility. It’s great. She can’t walk much but can still socialise as they have a cafe area and there are activities all on the premises. Carers come if needed. If she’d been adamant about staying in her own home she would be very isolated by now.

I think a lot of younger disabled people are in exactly that position. It’s worth thinking about whether something like this would work for younger people who need support and not just the over 55s.

@BelindaOkra , that’s really good for those who can get the care they need, but from what I’ve heard a common problem seems to be they just can’t recruit PAs. I could be wrong though.

Oh this is perfect.

A nice big high-rise with identical units, each identically furnished and equipped with basic home comforts.

No other allowance for accommodation. Each MP gets the keys to their one bed flat and that's that.

I also think we need to have a really serious conversation about care going forward. It's not even just about the money, it's about just not having enough people to provide the care. Much of the world is going to face huge demographic challenges very soon (or now). I don't know what the solution is but I don't think it's going to be pretty.

@Kendodd That’s a good point and it ties into funding as well. With an aging population, where’s the tax base going to come from? Presumably taxes will need to increase in order to maintain these services.

It’s not that tricky. Stop giving millions to corporates who don’t give a shit and properly fund smaller companies. We have had the same core team since autumn 2022. It took a while to get the right team (covid didn’t help) but we have no problem with cover in his team. I arranged cover for shifts today and tomorrow yesterday. If no-one covers I do it & I can’t remember the last time I picked a shift up. Cover is provided by people who know him equally well as the person whose shifts needed covering.

The team don’t get paid enough tbh. It’s a responsible job that is sometimes great fun and sometimes incredibly stressful. They could get paid more per hour working for a corporate care company (economies of scale - they have more cash sloshing around). Some of them did and said they would never go back. Sleep ins are paid well though so if you do some sleep ins you can get a pretty decent salary. Enough to buy a house if you are careful and still have 3 -4 days off a week (the advantage of long shifts).

Treat staff well, allow them to build a relationship with the people they support, be careful who you match them with (both team and supported person ) and you reduce staff turnover massively.

If you read further down you will see there is a distinction between what people call care in the community and disabled people who have a care package funded with the council that gives them autonomy to choose their carers. Most of them have full time PAs. It’s a very different thing.

So sickness cover costs nothing (except sick pay if applicable). People pick up or swap shifts. Holiday pay is always going to be a business cost but doesn't cost any more in terms of the cost of that shift.

Sounds a plan

Can't afford - bollocks on so many levels

We can't afford anything for a human being unless they contribute more and are a good economic unit? That's rejecting humanity. What we can't afford is to treat people like shit because it's humanity and people that matter not money

Money is a way of structure society

Money is a made up concept

And there's a fuck lot of it locked up with the rich and super rich

And that includes anyone who inherits a million quid and doesn't pay tax on that unearned wealth

But we are so busy protecting the rights of the rich in the vague hope it might be us that we stamp over the poorest