Voting to 'Get the Tories Out'

[DewHopper]

Pro Labour posters are all over this platform telling posters to vote for whoever gets the Tories out. It does not seem to matter who it is as long as voting for them gets the Tories out nationally.

It's a worrying voting strategy from my pov but I tend to vote at constituency level. If I had an excellent Tory MP who cared about the things I cared about and served their constituents well, I would vote for them. Similarly Labour ( I would absolutely vote for Rosie Duffield) or Independent.

Do those people who will just vote for anyone as longs as this will oust the Tories - and what could be a very good MP - ever consider the effects of this locally? They may have got the Tories out at a national level but saddled themselves with a useless MP who does nothing for the locality.

Take for example women's rights. I am a gender critical woman and care very deeply about the erosion of women's single sex spaces etc. I am sure that many of the 'Tories out at all costs' people feel the same. The pro Labour people keep telling us that Starmer will be better for women's rights BUT if you vote on a single issue - getting the Tories out - you may well elect a hopeless constituency MP who is TWAW and who will be standing up to every pro woman move that Starmer makes. I worry that there will be a lot of these in the next parliament.

So should we be voting on the single issue - get the Tories out? I don't think so - AIBU?

And those are on the same link… so…

And me.

As are the single rooms! So I'm really not sure what your point is?

You contribute 😳Not blameless in that part

Your integrity, you'd agree up is down and you might get a New Labour reboot. That's not integrity, that's a cheese dream.

And I’ve agreed it should be single sex.
I'm not sure why you are carrying this on.
To be clear: gender is nonsense, any division should be based on sex. I just am unwilling to believe, based on 35 years of helping students select universities and seeing what happens when they get in, that random people (whether on the basis of sex, gender or chess club membership) are allocated shared facilities with no choice of the other incumbent if the room.
Now can we drop this?

Oh stop it. Go and find someone else to try and bully.

Thanks, I want to have a discussion about these things.

I don't think some people are fully aware of all of the implications of basing spaces on gender rather than sex.

I want WHOEVER is in power to address these inequalities and to the right thing by women and girls in respect of this issue.

A bully...I thought I was fragile and sensitive?

I did some more reading and you can EITHER apply for a twin as a pair or get randomly assigned.

I haven’t called anyone fragile and sensitive. Perhaps you’re confused about who’s posted what? Now lay off.

Yes we can drop i but before we do I appreciate it's been some years but I was allocated a shared room at a university with a girl I didn't know.

I was eventually able to move out into single accommodation.

I agree that if a university can it would allocate a shared room to friends but the reality is that not everyone in shared accommodation in a twin room will know or have a real choice as to who they share with.

Glad you agree that it should be single sex. Subject closed.

Yes that's what I thought it would be. Thanks for looking it up.

So what this whole thread comes down to is -

If we care about women's rights and not being called TERFs, we should avoid the only party that can get the Tories out.

What do we care more about? Women's rights or fixing poverty?

Both are important, but whether someone is forced to share with a trans person at university or not, is an appeal to probability. The trans argument is also very much a first world problem and part of a culture war. Fixing poverty, and things of that nature, is about more basic things, such as survival.

If you were in the position of being sick, unemployed, living in poverty, severely disabled, unable to pay bills, homeless, etc, you would likely not be voting Tory. Arguments of this nature are only a main concern of the privileged.

The derailment of this thread about not voting Labour based on women's rights is a strawman.

I'm not a fan of the Tories. They are just the least worst option for me. And that is a really low bar. For someone who isn't prepared to agree that truth is a secondary issue to theology, there isn't a lot of options. But I don't think Labour are offering anything but a change of face, such are the wider financial constraints.

I disagree it does matter

And if women didn’t speak up we’d have no input at all into our spaces and sports

What do you expect Labour to do to fix poverty?

The trans woman problem is not a strawman for women faced with men in their spaces.

The Labour Party can do more to protect women and girls. It is less privileged women and girls who are more likely to be affected by males in single sex spaces.

In the university example wealthy women pay for the single rooms!

I am not saying those things are not important, I'm saying that basic survival is always, inherently, more important.

And if you really think the Conservative government will help those who are less fortunate, where have you been the past 14 years?

It is less privileged women and girls who are more likely to be affected by males in single sex spaces.

It’s also less privileged women and girls who are more likely to be hungry, unable to feed their kids, be homeless, poorly educated and unemployed. Which do you think they might be most worried about?

What do you think Labour will do differently?

I was hoping they'd take away two child limitations on benefits and spare room penalties and improve onerous hoop jumping for the disabled...but that isn't going to happen. So what do you think they will do to tip life towards better outcomes for those living in poverty?

In my borough to vote Tory out you would need to vote Labour in.
Labour has destroyed the borough I live, leaving it in such a state that it will take at least a decade to recover, if ever.

Nationally, Labour are probably the only contender to take over from the Tory party.
But I just can not bring myself to vote Labour.

Unravel the formula changes (the ones Sunak boasted about) which have redirected funding from poorer areas to richer areas.

Raise lower tax thresholds over things like cutting inheritance tax.

Raise benefits more than the Tories would.

Prioritise resources at those who need interventions rather than blanket spending.

Politics is about choices, the choices the parties make lead to different outcomes.

I'd say that Labour is more likely to help the less fortunate than the Tories.
Manifestos mean nothing. They go back on things, both parties will do so whoever wins.

Labour introduced tax credits and it was fairly easy and straight forward to claim benefits as a single parent when they were in power. Under the Tories, housing benefit doesn't even exist anymore and....I could go on and on, but we know what's happened under the current government and the widespread suffering it is causing.

We need a change. And I'm in the camp of anything is better than the Tories. They are shameful, money-hoarding, incompetent, right-wingers who have lined their friends' pockets with billions. Are Labour awesome and will they fix it all? Unlikely. But it will be better than this. The culture war on trans rights will continue either way. Fix the sinking ship first.

What I genuinely don't get is why people trust the Tories on this issue. They have presided over the situation people say they oppose, but people want to vote for the status quo.

And do you have no fear about the repeal of the human rights act or coming out of the ECHR? That would trash women's rights.