A thread for those of us who tried who have a career change but didn’t manage to

[123stay]

I’ve considered writing this post for a while, and was finally inspired to do so by the thread about not being happy with where you’ve ended up in life.

Please bear in mind this is mainly a mental health and personal support thread, NOT a job hunting advice thread. Please don’t give unsolicited advice or tell me to update my CV or go on LinkedIn etc. I’m not interested any more.

The point of this thread is that when we’re hear about people having career changes, or studying or retraining to get a new job etc, we only hear about the successful ones. But I’m convinced there’s lots of other people out there who tried but failed.

After years of employers asking why I didn’t have a degree, I went and studied later in life. I did very well at uni, but was unable to get a graduate job because most employers just aren’t set up to deal with mature graduates, unless you want to be a teacher. I applied for so many things, went to networking events etc, the ones with application forms were too rigid for my non-traditional situation, a lot of employers want people with masters degrees now, and so many other barriers.

We’re constantly told that we can change our lives through education. There is a huge amount of privilege involved in telling someone that if you don’t like your job, go and get another one instead. It’s not that easy.

I still do the same type of work as before, because it’s all I could get. I just wanted to know that I’m not alone.

Yep I completely get you.
I am a single parent with two children. Have worked in boring admin jobs since I graduated. I have never been able to progress due to finding myself in small firms, businesses, charities etc. The progression pathway in admin never seemed worth it and the higher up positions seemed much more business orientated whilst i thrive through helping people.
Without blowing my own horn, I have been constantly told that I'm wasted in the jobs I've been in. I can write to a very high standard and can take in lots of information quickly. You don't have to teach me anything more than once.
Anyway, this year I went for it. Got onto a masters scheme to retrain. It's generally aimed at mature students, however it's tough going, full time placements and then studying on top.
I can already see that many people on the course won't be able to make it into our chosen industry. They, like me, just have so much going on in their personal life, it would be pretty damn impossible to be able to put that all aside for two years in order to give our all to our careers. Ironically the job really benefits from having people with lived experience but the likelihood that those with caring responsibilities, mental health issues, trauma, single parents, health problems will actually make it through and be able to work the necessary amount of hours is slim.
The grad scheme are very cagey about how many people drop out before the two years. I think it must be much higher than they would like.

Also OP, people on mumsnet are constantly telling people to retrain with no real insight about the reality of this. If I hear one more poster suggest an open university accountancy degree I will scream.
Take a mum of two, years of admin, nice WFH job, not stressful and tell her to retrain.. in what? Get an NVQ in business administration so she can earn an extra 25p a day, woohoo

I can already see that many people on the course won't be able to make it into our chosen industry. They, like me, just have so much going on in their personal life, it would be pretty damn impossible to be able to put that all aside for two years in order to give our all to our careers. Ironically the job really benefits from having people with lived experience

This sounds like a serious failure in the scheme design, @Dryupyourdesertwithtears. If they want grown-up graduates with real life experience, they have to create a course that can accommodate grown-up lives. 22-year-olds can dive into full-on, full-time placements and probably benefit from the rigours of getting through it, but the same model can't simply be ported to an entirely different student profile.

In fact, it's so stupid that it's worth raising it with [whoever you talk to about such things these days]. At the very least, they ought to get some adjustments in place to facilitate the very people they want to succeed.

Overall, I agree that ageism's an enormous barrier. I retrained in Web development - partly because it used all my transferable skills, and mainly so that I'd be working on the other end of a phone/email, so clients wouldn't feel too confronted by my 48-year-old face! It worked OK for a few years, then loads of fresh-faced, eager young men started graduating in this new discipline and their rates were cheap.

I was really looking forward to hearing from more people about this. I'm sure there must be lots of us.
My mum waited until I was 16 to retrain as a secondary school teacher. She worked for years as a TA before that, and I was a terrible teen which made her think she could handle it.
She did the PGCE, moved to Wales to work, spent hundreds/ thousands on commuting to her placement and then only lasted two years. The kids were so awful to her, and she was so stressed she made herself ill.
Went back to MW admin jobs.

Thanks for the replies so far. Hopefully this will keep the thread bumped a bit.

When it comes to ageism, I actually think that some of it is accidental rather than deliberate. For example application forms sometimes ask for a certain number of UCAS points, which doesn’t work as they change every few years, and some non-traditional students don’t actually have any A Levels at all. And sometimes the rigid nature of application forms makes it very difficult for people who’ve done multiple temp jobs etc, which I think is more likely to have happened if you did a degree to try and change your life.

Yes, I think it’s easy for people to make throwaway comments about just getting a new job if you’re unhappy with your current one. There are all sorts of practical reasons why that isn’t always possible.

@123stay this is a really important conversation, I’m just sorry you didn’t put it on the Mature Study and Retraining board. Lots of negative or challenging experiences are recounted there - I don’t think many people believe it’s an easy thing to do. (Not without unlimited money and oodles of energy and confidence.) But the point of having all the discussions in one place is to assist anyone who’s trying to make a decision about their own situation.

so much going on in their personal life, it would be pretty damn impossible to be able to put that all aside for two years in order to give our all to our careers

Yep. Actually most careers are still structured on the basis that you work full time (if not more), at the lowest end of the pay scale, for the first few years - the assumption being that you are in your 20s at that stage. Then once you are more experienced/senior, you get better pay and better flexibility. But people who have young children or other caring responsibilities will not be able to make it through those early “full on” years in order to get to the eventual flexibility - so are always going to struggle to restart at the bottom of these careers.

I’m in this position- have looked at retraining in various ways, but although I could manage any further education required, the actual entry level jobs in the industry (assuming I could get one) are FT and don’t pay enough to cover childcare.

I’m not so much a failed career changer as gave up before I even started… Maybe in a few years once DC are more independent, but I’ll be even older by then!

I did this first degree at 35 graduated at 38 with a first. Managed to get on a big 4 grad scheme, kids were 9 and 11 when I started the scheme. My DH picked up a lot of the slack, I couldn’t have done it without him, professionally qualified at 40.

A few years later and due to personal circumstance and heath issues I’ve not progressed far up the career ladder and am absolutely broken. So I did it but not sure at what cost to me and my family.

@StrangeNew I didn’t even know that board existed. Very interesting, thank you.

I think a lot of the issue for me is with people moving the goalposts. I was told for years that I couldn’t be accepted for certain jobs as I didn’t have a degree, so I went and got one and it still wasn’t good enough for people. Either they want a masters, or they just can’t deal with older graduates for some reason.

I’d also like to have a discussion about the idea of transferable skills. I think these are hugely overhyped by careers advisers and they’re not as attractive to employers as we’re always told.

Similar to me. Mum of one, was admin manager for a long time with no progression. Retrained as a mental health nurse. Managed to do 2 years of a 3 year course, then Covid hit and placements stopped, son started with issues at school and my mental health took a massive nosedive. Now a stay at home mum for my 8 year old, which to be fair is just as well as he hasn't been able to attend school due to unmet needs for 3 months. My credits last one more year so I only have 12 months to go back and finish.

Thanks for starting this 123stay and thanks for putting it in chat rather than somewhere I'd never have found it. I retrained (degree and masters) and really wish I hadn't bothered. I now find myself stuck in a town with a really low number of graduate jobs, and am overqualified for pretty much everything available. But if I leave the latest qualifications off my C.V. I probably just look like I've been in prison instead of university. Feeling pretty hacked off about it at the moment.

I agree that most ageism's 'accidental', though 'thoughtless' would be a better word. All the -isms are: they come from unexamined assumptions about people, usually boiling down to 'people like me'.

It's not good enough to say they didn't mean it - they rarely do! If you've structured a course, apprenticeship, job, service, etc around users without personal responsibilities or with the stamina/fitness of a healthy 20-year-old, you need to be able to justify your ageism in legally acceptable terms or do better.

It's no different from assuming your users don't menstruate or give birth, have pale skin, can tackle stairs, and so on.

Thanks for starting thread. This is me - looking forward to reading other’s experiences.

You’re right. Thoughtless is a much better word. Thank you for that.

I didn’t even know that board existed.

Let’s just say it was a surprise to me when I realised no such topic existed on MN - a site where probably 90% of posters will at some stage be returning to work after a career break.

Anyway, now we do have it and I just wish MNHQ would promote it more actively - so @QueenOfTheSconeAge might have found it …

I think that transferable skills aren't valued because they are the kind of wife work/mental load skills that women are expected to have in the workplace anyway. Good at juggling lots of competing priorities? You're a mid-life woman, of course you are! sort of thing. You're not going to get extra points for that, it's a basic feature of your avatar.

@flea101 I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Mine is similar but with social work. Dd with SEN is often a school refuser, and when she's in it's not guaranteed that she'll stay in. I'm clinging onto my course, passing and doing well but I know that if she goes through a spell of 3/5 days of no school then I'll be kicked off the course. There's no one else but me. Short of cloning myself I wouldn't be able to continue. It's so bloody frustrating when you've found something you're good at.

Not a degree but I studied AAT. Always see it suggested as a great route to retraining, over and over, all over the internet, start off with AAT and in time, you can become a chartered accountant earning £££!

I couldn't get a foot in the door anywhere, not even minimum wage finance admin type stuff, and the standard 'get experience by volunteering with a charity' is laughable. As if charities are tripping over themselves to hand their books to some random with an AAT level 2 certificate.

Like you say, it's so, so easy to say do this and then do that and then that and then... when you're just making up an imaginary career path and don't have to get employers to play along.

Bumping this thread for the weekend crowd.

I keep getting adverts on my phone for companies who are recruiting, but only for big fancy jobs. What’s even more upsetting is that I also got an advert for some kind of women returners organisation, helping women get back into the workplace after time away, but of course it’s all for bankers etc.

There are also charities out there who help find work for people from disadvantaged backgrounds etc but I don’t fit into that category either.

There’s nothing for people looking for mundane office jobs. I never find there’s anything for me.

I do get it. I’m a nearly 50 year old nurse and read all the time on here about the transferable skills and how easy it is to get out of nursing and I really don’t think it’s that easy for us older nurses at all! It is possible but I trained a very long time ago, pre degree and I don’t have the mental capacity to do a degree now!

i feel trapped and my only choice is a big pay cut to get out which I can’t currently afford. I am fortunate in that my job does reasonably pay well although the responsibility and stress is unreal and I can drop a band or 2 for an easier life within nursing and probably will at some point.

At this point I think transferable skills are a myth. It’s just something we’re told so that careers advisors can keep their jobs. It’s all very well talking about things like dealing with difficult people, or prioritising tasks etc but those things really don’t take you far.

There’s nothing for people looking for mundane office jobs. I never find there’s anything for me.

But there are no ‘mundane office jobs’ now! (Not literally but YKWIM.) You’ve heard of robots and Chat GPT, etc? They can perform those tasks a million times more swiftly and cheaply than an adult woman.

I think your assessment of the categories of people who are being encouraged is probably very accurate! It means you’re probably going to have to reassess what you are looking for if what you could previously offer is not currently in demand.

I honestly do know it’s not easy …

I meant there aren’t any schemes or organisations to help us. Is not about the exact job itself, my job very much still exists, it’s just hard to get a new one.

I’m talking more about organisations or local help things for people trying to get back into work after time away. All the adverts are either for “returnships” for women in banking or big fancy highly paid jobs etc, or there’s adverts for the Princes Trust or help for disadvantaged people. Which is admirable, but I fit into neither of those categories. There are lots of people out there doing mundane jobs that very much exist, I haven’t seen anything to help women who just want to get another boring, average job, no networking groups, places you can go for help with your CV, it just general get back the workplace stuff.

I get targeted ads on social media and it’s depressing how they assume women over 40 are all either looking to become CEOs, or want to work in minimum wage jobs, with nothing in between.

I think OP, the problem is that older women with commitments can return to study. Universities at times will bend over backwards to make adjustments and keep us on the course. They are financially incentivised to keep us on the course and graduate.
Employers don't need to hire us. Most graduates will be a bit rubbish when they start but it's easier to take this on when the employee is in their early twenties. So if I start with at 43, don't get going for a few years, but only have twenty years left to work, rather than a younger employee who has forty years left.
Obviously we have transferable skills, but we've established that employers don't really care about that.