Don't know who is at fault here...me/DH or sister

[Rioja81]

There's a lot of back story that'll take too long. But to summarise, I'm the older sister,arrived with a number of children. Younger sister is single and has recently (a couple of years ago) had some fairly serious health issues. Totally fine now. We get on ok, are a close family but sister and I aren't very close, we are very different characters and there is a lot of 'water under the bridge '.

Because of this water, DH isn't her biggest fan, but he is welcoming to her and was very supportive during her illness etc.

Anyway. We were hosting this year, sister and my parents (they love 5 mins away, she has a room there but lives elsewhere).

Parents hinted that she would like to stay with us Christmas Eve, I said that wouldn't work as we don't have the space. To be honest, we also don't have the kind of 'easy' relaxed relationship where I would want her to stay over if not necessary, I knew that we would all be together from the Sat through till Monday anyway and DH and I could do with time to decompress without her there.

So we have them round on the Saturday for drinks etc, halfway through she asks again if she can stay over (but in a really wheedling tone, it was very obviously done in front of the kids and my parents to make it harder to say no). Again, I say that won't work for us for various logistical reasons.

She got tearful, disappeared for 10 mins or so, then we all carried on. Then she asked me to go elsewhere with her for a chat away from DH etc, and basically had a bit of a tantrum. A lot of tears, and accusations of my being cold, closed off, unsupportive, she might go to her grave without seeing any children opening stockings etc. Eventually I cave, as I always do. DH overhears, and says in front of my parents that this always happens, tears to get her own way. I beg him to just give in for my sake, as the tension and inevitable recriminations on me are too much to take at Christmas. Which he does, gracefully. Tells her it'll be fine etc.

Dad is looking disapproving (of me), she is still sniffing, telling me I'm not a good big sister etc in effect.

Christmas eve, very tense, feel like shit all day. Eve comes, she says that she won't stay as she can tell she isn't wanted. I suggest coming first thing to join in stockings, which she does.

Day passes ok, the vibe is still very much that we have done her wrong.

So today we are doing our own thing, she goes home. DH and I decide last minute to take kids to a boxing day thing in the morning. She hears, sends a sarky text message along the lines of "thanks so much for my invitation etc". And then asks whether "all that tension yesterday was all because her emotions were triggered 🤷"

I am so in the FOG in this relationship that I don't know whether I am a bad sister, DH is a bad BIL or whether her behaviour is unreasonable. I'm not strong enough for AIBU as this pattern has been a regular occurrence in my life. What do you all think?

Parents are being very short with me today so I think I'm on the naughty list there too.

@Rioja81 Spot on. He wants a reaction, just like your sister. He wants you to go running to him all upset that his withdrawal of interaction has had the desired effect. What he wants more than anything now is for you to be all "OMG dad, I'm so sorry, are you upset with me?" so then he can dole out his punishment and castigation for you not bowing to his wants.

Do NOT give him what he wants- no matter how long it goes on for. Otherwise, all he'll learn is that it takes 6 weeks (or however long it takes before you cave) of silence for you to give him what he wants. Let him crack on with his pathetic silent treatment - he'll be in for a massive shock that it's not "working". Be aware that he'll probably resort to other tactics once he realises its not working so prepare yourself for a bit of a challenge as people like this don't take kindly to boundaries being set- you'll be the bad guy for a while and he'll play the victim.

Above all, remain calm- calmness is the cradle of power. If he asks why you haven't been in contact just say "You werent communicating with me, so I was respecting that". See- it's all about consequences of actions. Calm and logic are your friends here, the moment you start getting overwhelmed with emotions is when you'll start thinking emotionally and that's when you'll lose control of this situation again. Do whatever it takes to stay calm and logical- mediation, self care, exercise, relaxation techniques etc.

Enjoy the peace op. Leave dsis and dps to their enmeshed life. I would set up a dd to pay df back a pound a week of that deposit too. Then you aren't beholding to them whatsoever..

Absolutely agree with @mouldyfalafel. For a while it'll probably give fuel to your parents and sisters (in their view!) righteous ire, how awful you are! How mean! But soon without you to be their point of whinge they'll likely clash and compete with each other for your attention!

I really second the recommendation to get “Stop Walking on Eggshells” It is an excellent book! But in the long term I think its quite effective to also just teach yourself to pull back. Avoid manipulation by dealing with the surface of requests rather than the hidden meaning. Sister asks for X snd you jump because otherwise you are blamed for her not being happy, or being alone, or parents getting upset. Just treat demands for X as an up or down request. Fulfill it if you want. Not if you don’t.

When they start in with tears or complaints or silence just remind yourself (say it out loud to yourself) “they are trying to make me responsible for their emotions and I don’t choose to accept that responsibility,”

If the interaction is in mid swing don't pick up the phone or text, or end the conversation (we will just have to agree to disagree! Oh look at the time! We can talk later when you have collected yourself! Etc…etc…)

I think you've had lots of good advice here but also: you have a lovely husband and your own house and family. I think you need to focus more on the good things in your life (i.e them) and pull away from your parents a bit. I I'm not throwing about the old 'go no contact' thing but really you don't have to be in each other's pockets. Aim for it taking a month for you to notice your dad isn't talking to you rather than two days. If they live 5 mins away your kids will be able to manage their own relationship with them soon enough.

I know you're right. It's a nagging anxiety at the moment. We were away for the day visiting one of my brother in laws and his family, which was lovely and while away I barely thought about it. But as soon as we got back to our town I suddenly felt so anxious, I don't know why really. I haven't heard.from them properly since C Day, we normally would have seen each other casually since. I think I'm angry, about lots of things. But also sad, that the close relationship we had isn't there at the moment but also because they can put it aside like they have. I feel like I'm about 6 and have let them down somehow.

I don't know where it goes from here, I'm not up to or for a big conversation about it, nor do I want it to just drag on. I know that to my dad in particular my husband will be the bad guy most, and that bothers.me. He can be nasty in an argument and then expect it to be forgotten about, but Dh won't do that, and not should he have to obviously.

You really need therapy so you can stop letting them push your buttons. Try reading Toxic Patents, Out if the Fog, Stop Walking on Eggshells and perhaps Running on Empty. The more you learn about dysfunctional family dynamics the more you will discover you can’t go back to being the family doormat. And try spending a dedicated time each day reflecting with gratitude that you chose your husband. He seems very healthy, kind, and dependable. The fact that your father, who has such a cold and capricious attitude towards you doesn’t like him is really a badge of honor. Strengthen good relationships. Distance yourself from bad ones.

You need some kind of mantra- write out. ‘I didn’t cause it. I can’t fix her. I am allowed to have boundaries. I am allowed to be upset because my parents choose her over and over. One day I will tell them this. I am a good person and I do not deserve their putting me last all the time. In the meantime I will not call them, I will live my life. I am lucky to have my husband and children and my lovely life. I will treasure that today.’
read it aloud.

You feel 6 because that's when this pattern was formed.

There's some great videos on YouTube if you don't want to do formal therapy.

I had a humongous argument with a sibling & it woke me up to needing help with breaking the cycle of emotional abuse.

"The school of life" have some excellent short musings. I hadn't realised they were by Alain de Botton until recently.

Crappy Childhood fairy is good if you want to think about the effects of parents behaviour.

I really like Therapy in a Nutshell. Good for learning to process difficult issues.

And you do need to address it. I'm probably much older than you & these things get worse over time, as the people get older & even more set in their defensive positions.

@Rioja81 maybe you do need more time away from them, actually you definitely do, so you can see how ridiculous they are being but you're as pp have said in the FOG just now. When you actually write down why your parents have 'fallen out with you' it's because you did not centre your Christmas around your sister, because she didn't get exactly what she wanted as soon as she demanded. Its ludicrous, but youve been conditioned that its only her that matters. Your parents and her are putting her tears and demands over not only you, but your dc now. Stay strong!

Interestingly, both she and my mum have been in touch today. I have been very honest with both, my mum is very understanding and while she doesn't feel like they favour her, she acknowledges that my dad does. I have said I am happy to have a coffee with her but I am not going to have it turn in to a bunch of recriminations on me or DH being made into a bad guy.

Sister, acknowledging no fault in the matter and still being very passive aggressive and bog standard aggressive so I'm not engaging further.

I agree therapy will help. For now, if you haven't caved and contacted them, why not practise sitting with the horrible feeling their potential displeasure has given you? It's not a reasonable feeling because you really have done absolutely nothing wrong, but it's the one that makes you disregard your own boundaries time and time again. If you can start learning to accept it as a horrible feeling that actually won't do anything bad to you because it only happens when you put your own needs in their proportionate place that's a brilliant first step.

Cross post sorry! You sound annoyed rather than browbeaten, which is bloody great.

Toxic Parents is a good read.

@Spottywombat is right - you feel about 6 because this is when these patterns were set. But now you are a capable adult and don’t need to fear your parents disapproval in quite the same way. You can recognise and change these patterns over time.

@WhereIsBebèsChambre is quite right that the root cause of all this is completely daft - why should your sister expect to be centre of everything that happens? You have done nothing wrong!

@Rioja81 Its interesting that your dad uses such emotive language like "you're a BAD sister". Him favouring your sister also then makes him a "BAD father" doesn't it? I wonder how he'd react if you ever said that to him? Its funny how people don't like it when they get back some of what they dole out.

Did your mum apologise for her part in it all, or is it just being swept under the carpet and let's move on?

I never knew this was the issue but basically when you're 6, you have to appease the parents to keep safe and be loved. No control, none at all.

You have the ability to choose now and your brain adapts to prioritise what you're most concerned about, so change your focus to your own family. A stresed mum is not the best for your own family. Your parents and sibling are sucking your mental energy.

Do you really not think family members have a collective responsibility for each-others' wellbeing? I think that's sad.

Not when the other family members clearly care so little for one person's.
It can't be that one person's opinions and emotions are trampled to pacify another's.

Of course we do, and that works both ways.

YANBU. It’s the older sister effect. I have the same dynamic in my family, I think it’s so common. DH (also an elder sibling) has a spoilt unmarried younger sister and at Christmas she almost seems to expect us to act as her parents - she wants us to create all the Xmas magic for her, partially via our 3 year old DS, and her and the grandparents have to be included in EVERYTHING from Xmas eve onwards - mince pies for Santa, stockings etc- even though it makes life so stressful for me and DH and I feel that the magic I look forward to all year with my son is encroached on and diluted. My younger siblings are similar though not as bad. This year I drew a line, I’d been really ill and told everyone I wasn’t up to hosting and we wanted a quiet Xmas the 3 of us. I realised that I just wanted to not spend Xmas thinking about my stepsister and the in laws, and that I wanted do those things with my child myself - and open stockings in bed with him with a cuppa and without a huge audience! Of course she threw a huge strop but we stood our ground and it was absolutely amazing. Going forward we will have them all over at other points but will be keeping some of Xmas for ourselves. You’re not being unreasonable at all, she needs to realise she is a grown adult and not your responsibility and her parents need to stop enabling her.

It is not confined to older sisters. That's a really annoying thing to suggest.

Oh gosh that’s really tough OP, your husband sounds great btw 🥰 I kinda feel sorry for all of you in this situation and I don’t think the pile on your sister is necessary. It sounds like she really wants to spend time with you all which is kinda sweet, perhaps she has a new perspective since being unwell, finding out she likely won’t have kids. I think you two could benefit from some sort of therapy together, but only if you both want to salvage the relationship. It’s just you say your kids love her and she loves them and loves spending time with them, that’s not all common and some people are not lucky enough to have those relationships for those kids ❤️