Don't know who is at fault here...me/DH or sister

[Rioja81]

There's a lot of back story that'll take too long. But to summarise, I'm the older sister,arrived with a number of children. Younger sister is single and has recently (a couple of years ago) had some fairly serious health issues. Totally fine now. We get on ok, are a close family but sister and I aren't very close, we are very different characters and there is a lot of 'water under the bridge '.

Because of this water, DH isn't her biggest fan, but he is welcoming to her and was very supportive during her illness etc.

Anyway. We were hosting this year, sister and my parents (they love 5 mins away, she has a room there but lives elsewhere).

Parents hinted that she would like to stay with us Christmas Eve, I said that wouldn't work as we don't have the space. To be honest, we also don't have the kind of 'easy' relaxed relationship where I would want her to stay over if not necessary, I knew that we would all be together from the Sat through till Monday anyway and DH and I could do with time to decompress without her there.

So we have them round on the Saturday for drinks etc, halfway through she asks again if she can stay over (but in a really wheedling tone, it was very obviously done in front of the kids and my parents to make it harder to say no). Again, I say that won't work for us for various logistical reasons.

She got tearful, disappeared for 10 mins or so, then we all carried on. Then she asked me to go elsewhere with her for a chat away from DH etc, and basically had a bit of a tantrum. A lot of tears, and accusations of my being cold, closed off, unsupportive, she might go to her grave without seeing any children opening stockings etc. Eventually I cave, as I always do. DH overhears, and says in front of my parents that this always happens, tears to get her own way. I beg him to just give in for my sake, as the tension and inevitable recriminations on me are too much to take at Christmas. Which he does, gracefully. Tells her it'll be fine etc.

Dad is looking disapproving (of me), she is still sniffing, telling me I'm not a good big sister etc in effect.

Christmas eve, very tense, feel like shit all day. Eve comes, she says that she won't stay as she can tell she isn't wanted. I suggest coming first thing to join in stockings, which she does.

Day passes ok, the vibe is still very much that we have done her wrong.

So today we are doing our own thing, she goes home. DH and I decide last minute to take kids to a boxing day thing in the morning. She hears, sends a sarky text message along the lines of "thanks so much for my invitation etc". And then asks whether "all that tension yesterday was all because her emotions were triggered 🤷"

I am so in the FOG in this relationship that I don't know whether I am a bad sister, DH is a bad BIL or whether her behaviour is unreasonable. I'm not strong enough for AIBU as this pattern has been a regular occurrence in my life. What do you all think?

Parents are being very short with me today so I think I'm on the naughty list there too.

See also ‘yes, but don’t start crying to try to stay another night’. ‘You can come tomorrow at 4, but only if you don’t cry!’*

This: your sister won’t die of unhappiness or because of crying. You were raised to take her feelings too much to heart. Just be warm but closed. When she starts to badger or cry just say cheerfully “looks like you are having a hard time express ing yourself appropriately! We can talk about this some other time” or same beginning but “my answer is still NO but I think you need some time to process do I will ask you to leave/hang up the phone/consider the matter closed.”

Stop hosting, don't bother going to your parents house for dinner either OP.

Next year and there after just have dinner at your own house!!

Poor you, you will never have peace with this set up. I can't believe she is 40 and crying for what she wants. She sounds emotionally stunted and extremely manipulative. It is so hurtful to read that your parents back her and the three of them gang up on you. You are definitely the family scapegoat and you are expected to roll over and appease your sister regardless the cost to you.

I'd withdraw from the three of them, put in firm boundaries and focus on your own immediate family. Your own wee family will bring you peace and happiness. Your sister and parents can continue in their dysfunctional dance, excuse yourself from it.

Good luck x

I thought exactly the same @Lweji.

I think because she wanted the bustle and excitement of being around kids on Christmas morning, instead of the more sedate, peaceful morning she would have with mum and dad. I think she didn't want to feel like she was visiting them, but was a real part of it perhaps

She sounds very like my sister, who I am now NC with. I got utterly sick of being manipulated by someone who was continually crying to Mum and Dad because she was only 47 and obviously that's what you do at that age.

I got absolutely sick of her continual tantrums and teenage behaviour, and how every, single thing was about her. She spoilt many a family occasion and I was always the bad guy. Like you, my DH can see straight through her.

Maybe say to your sister “I presume you’re behaving like this because you want to be included more. The irony is that when you behave like this it just makes me want to do the opposite”.

Ha, yes, that’s very accurate.

Interestingly I thought that actually my parents were staying out of it as my mum messaged me something "normal" yesterday. But now my dad is being arsey with DH and me over something unrelated on a group chat so clearly he still feels aggrieved about something. I have tried to ask why but had no response as yet.

It sounds like they expect you to just put up with whatever she wants otherwise she will have a tantrum. It's shocking that someone 40yo who has a professional job is behaving this way.

Is your Mum also similar? You mentioned her being unwell too. It's out of order that you visited her every day & your sister didn't really bother.

Just don't host again. Or do your own thing next year to avoid the drama.

I guess she is mourning the children she will never have. At 40 it's now pretty much unlikely to happen. But that's not your responsibility.

Yes, my mum is quite similar, but better with age. My dad is a difficult character to explain. He used to be very strict, scary almost, and difficult to get along with. He has mellowed over the years, but still has a definite edge.

When my sister pulled a similar trick a decade ago my husband pulled her up on it, my dad called me up the next day furious and irrational. To the point that he was telling me that he wanted the deposit that he and mum had given me 10 years earlier back to add to my sister's. DH has never really forgiven that, although they do get on and socialise together etc, and I know that my dad thinks of my husband as a 'problem' because he doesn't toe the line.

Yes, my mum is quite similar, but better with age.

That's why it's tolerated. Your Dad just expects you to get on with it & keep your Mum & Sister happy. So if you toe the line it makes his life easier.

Honestly I think you need to step back. The request for deposit money back is just ridiculous. I would just do your own thing.

You say you have ADHD? Good chance that your sibling does too then and her reactions sound very much like an emotional disregulation so that any perceived criticism or rejection causes her a pain that isn’t in proportion hence the tears. It’s not an excuse by any means and if she does have a neurodivergence it doesn’t mean she’s not manipulative either. Your DH sounds like a good man.

Narcissist and enabler dyad with daddy and sister taking turns getting what they need from OP. OP is not just the scapegoat but slso the Utility child whose job it is to do things/give things/caretake the more important family members. The Utility child doesn’t really “own” anything: they kind of hold things for other family members or are used as a resource /utility closet full of stuff the family requisitions when needed. The story of OPs father demanding back the house deposit is on point. It was more than just punishment it was a sign that OPs stuff doesn’t beling to her, in their eyes. Whatever OP has little sister should also have: house deposit, children, Christmas morning—don’t think she won’t come after your husband since she doesn’t have one of her own.

Interesting.

My dad still isn't speaking to us I don't think, although everything was left normally on Christmas Day, so he's obviously mulled it over and got wound up. Mum has messaged once or twice, but not as much as normal. When I asked her why dad was being like this she replied after a few hours saying she was too tired to talk about it now.

I don't think you should text either of them. You know why your dad is being an arse, it's because you and your husband didn't immediately enable your sister.

If my parent had been arsey for no reason with my partner in a group chat I'd be furious.

Its easier to say when you're not in the middle of it, but unless it's a message to say your sister's behaviour was self involved and manipulative, and your dad's is childish then drop the rope and let them stew together.

For what it's worth, I think you should trust your husband on this. Your family are using you as a resource to keep your sister happy, and it's now impacting on him and your kids. You're the scapegoat in an unhealthy dynamic and you need to either change how you engage with it or step away.

Stop engaging with drama. Stop asking if everything is all right, what’s up with Dad, etc. Just pretend you haven’t noticed. Don’t engage.

Maybe your parents countered on your sister spending more time with you rather than with them because in reality spending holidays with her was not easy? She was clearly moaning about you.
Also your Dad probably wants to be this main male person in his family forever, your sister is single so your DH is his main competition. It seems you are presenting united front and your DH has an equal voice. I wonder if your Dad is not listened much and all his life manipulated by women. Considering this your Dad would never like your DH, your sister situation is better for Dad in a way as he still feels important and needed.

OP, re-read this as if someone else wrote it because this post really highlights how messed up the dynamic is.
You're at fault apparently for how you process your own emotions, for supporting your mum daily during covid and for not supporting your sister more because she moved in with her boyfriend.
It sounds like you DH is a brilliant person who absolutely has the measure of your toxic family. If you are doubting yourself, keep talking to him and getting that outsider perspective.

I think the situation created in your sisters head is real to her but it’s distorted by her mental health issues. She has a lot of traits of EUPD (lots of push/pull, sensitivity to rejection, manipulation and anger) and your parents can’t tolerate her feelings of distress so take their frustration out on you.

best thing you can do is get the book ‘how not to walk on egg shells’ and assert healthy boundaries moving forward. Don’t chase your dad worried why he’s not speaking to you and hound your mum. You’ve done nothing wrong.

I would say to your parents that you would like less contact moving forward as the dynamics aren’t healthy and your sister will constantly use you to be a victim and you the attacker (this is also a classic EUPD relationship dynamic that plays out time and time again). I think you should approach with them your concerns over her mental health and suggest they should encourage your sister to get therapy.

It’s acknowledging from now on that she is feeling sad/rejected/unloved and you might trigger some of these painful feelings unintentionally but your not going to be forced to do what she wants in order to ease those feelings - she has to take responsibility for her own triggers and issues.

Agree with so manu posters on this thread, especially the one re 'utility child' you're currently being punished for initially saying 'no' to her staying with you on Christmas Eve, even though things changed. You're being punished until you accept there is no other response to when she asks for some of 'of course, right away, whatever you want'.
I can't work out if she saw herself on Christmas eve/morn to be treated as one of your dc (the most important one of course!) to be made a huge fuss of, or to be there as a surrogate parent!
Your parents are manipulative and mean to you and as pp definitely 'drop the rope' put any family chats on mute.
Have they previously tried to drive a wedge between you and dh?

I mean, your sister has clearly learnt her manipulations from your father hasn't she? he uses silence and anger to punish, she uses tears and cries of being upset. Both of them are manipulating you, albeit using different methods.

The only way through this is sticking to firm boundaries and not giving in to the manipulations. Once they learn that silence, anger or tears is having no effect on you and not giving them the desired outcome it will lessen eventually but to get to that point you have to be strong and not give in to it now. Let him be silent- who cares? let her have her tantrum- the world isn't going to end either. You have already shown his silence is getting to you as you keep asking if he's ok and why isn't he talking. Don't do that. Let him be silent- think of it as a nice calm break. I know it's hard to break patterns that are well worn from childhood but if you continue to pander to them, nothing will ever change. The definition of madness is doing the same thing and expecting a different result!

The book recommendations are great, I'd also recommend the book emotional vampires by Albert J Bernstein on how to deal with these kind of manipulative tactics.

I think that this is an excellent idea.

Sometimes with these sort of adult family tensions it doesn’t matter so much who is right and who is wrong, but rather how to avoid it happening again.

You were already thinking about that when you didn’t offer the staying over. It didn’t work in that instance but the thinking was right.

Id suggest a breezy “Yes, we’re going away next year, last Christmas was a bit stressful and upsetting for all of us wasn’t it, so we’re not in a hurry to repeat that”

In future you could think about inviting people for Christmas Day only and not the other days “I know that stocking opening is important for you so come as early as you like on Christmas Day and stay as late as you like that day” and then shut down any suggestion of other days with “oh god no, do you remember that awful year when Christmas was so stressful because we’d spent far too much time together “

You're right about not questioning the silence, I hadn't because I felt drawing attention to it would make it 'a thing' and would mean I recognised there was something for them to be cross about, if that makes sense.

But after his snippiness to us I asked mum in a fairly indignant tone because it was annoying 😂

It hasn't been raised since and Comms are still very limited. I'll leave it at that tbh.

I have to say how much I appreciate you all taking the time to talk to me about this, it's been so helpful.

Sister dynamics are tricky & less openly discussed.

Mine treats me badly but I always feel to blame.