Anyone had an academic child go down the trades / vocational path?

[rickyrickygrimes]

To not drip feed, we are in France, not the UK.

Here, students generally split between academic and vocational studies at 15. Lycée general is for the more academic, lycée pro is for the more vocational.

DS has always been academic-ish. He's bright, works hard (when he wants to). He goes to one of the best (read most high scoring and academic) lycée general in the country: it just happens to be his catchment lycée so he's got the right to go there anyway, but he does get the marks too.

Increasingly he tells us he doesn't want to go to uni, to do anything academic, he doesn't want to study for umpteen years. he says that he wants to train in a trade, to start earning (lots) of money asap, have his own business - though having said that he doesn't know anyone who has done this. All our family are university educated / professionals. Do any of you have experience of children choosing to go down a vocational route when they could have gone to Uni? How did you feel about it? Are they bored? Do they regret it?

I can't work out my reaction. I can sense my mum clutching her pearls at the very thought of her wonderful, clever, grandson becoming a plumber - and I am doing the same, a bit. It's not my finest moment.

Listen to him and let him choose his own path. He can always go back to studying if he wants to later on. It's not your choice anyway and it's better to be supportive rather than he feels your disappointment! How awful would that be?

Also, plumbers can also be wonderful and clever!

I'm in the UK, and my situation is slightly different but has some similarities.

DS is on track for AAA at A level. One of the A levels is computer science, and his teachers say he has a natural affinity for the subject and has suggested a computer science degree at Imperial or Warwick.

DS is also a talented musician (grade 8 in two instruments, in a band, getting a fair number of paid gigs).

He has chosen music and has an offer at a Conservatoire.

I have had similar reactions to you, and we are currently not in contact with the inlaws over their reactions.

I have had panicky thoughts about the success he is potentially turning down, and I have reconciled it by talking to him about what happens if his music dreams don't fly. He has a backup plan which is coding boot camps and working his way up to a masters tech course.

I don't know if France has the same options but not going to university now doesn't mean not going ever maybe?

I went to university at 22, having worked for 3 years beforehand. I wasn't ready at 18 and, when I did go, I chose a course I was really passionate about. I still had a great experience - and the qualifications and experience gained while working meant my summer jobs were way better than waitresses and retail.

His intelligence and ability aren't going anywhere if he doesn't go to university and he may be better off long term going later, having gained experience and qualifications beforehand like I did.

Super intelligent nephew works as a gardener and has his own small company. Blissfully happy.

DS is a self employed musician ( both DDs graduates) and has absolutely found his thing in life. It makes me very happy to see....although he's broke most of the time!

I would recommend a trade to any youngster tbh. They can go back and do a degree later in life if they really want

Our situation is a bit like Sportycustard's and my difficulty coming to terms with her choice has not been my finest hour either. Dd is fine - it's me that struggles and I'm not proud of it. I have another friend whose very able ds left a top 6th form within a month to continue his very successful internet business. I get an impression that this is something of a trend. We had the big push for university and the shine has worn off in light of the reality of the job market. We are a very academic family and I do have to grit my teeth talking to some relatives.

Plumbers are skilled trades people who can earn ££££,s I would be delighted if my son wanted to train as, one.

Please support his choice. There are so many young people being pushed into academia who are reluctant about it and end up wasting a lot of time and money following a path half -heartedly.

Plumbers are usually on the lists of skilled workers that lovely countries like Australia and New Zealand will award residency to and he will never be out of work. Not only that but the pay for such jobs is often better than ‘professional’ roles such as barrister, teacher and junior doctor - £14 per hour anyone?!

Higher level study requires intense effort but most importantly a curiosity about the chosen subject to keep the momentum up when it gets tough. If there’s no spark to even begin, with there’s every chance your son will run out of steam just at the moment the course content begins to present more of a challenge.

Let him get a trade. He will be able to support himself wherever he goes and a lot sooner than his friends, who will all be saddled with lifetime debt for courses that aren’t even returning their investment.

If your son is a bright boy, he will be able to monetise his skills effectively and may surprise you with how quickly his plan pays off.

One of my boys did the apprenticeship route and is now a senior web dev earning lots!

Friend's daughter, v. academic. Caused a flurry going to cooking school. Cue lots of judgement from relatives, people tryin to 'talk her out of it', etc.
She's worked in restaurants all over the world. Cooked for celebs. Now owns her own high-end restaurant. It will be fine!

Btw. Academic skills and 'success' aren't always correlated. So many scientific/academic jobs for example pay very little. If finances are your concern I wouldn't worry about the trade route.

Also baffled at why people think plumbers, mechanics, gas engineers are aren't intelligent. Even if not reflected in an academic paper writing way. Have you tried fixing things??

I have a slightly different perspective on this. I was academic at school and then chose a career in the arts, which is a hugely competitive, horribly paid environment. DD is fairly academic and I would much rather she choose a trade, or something where there is always work eg hairdressing, undertaking (!) than run the gamut of unemployment, rejection and insecurity of the arts. I don’t think it’s likely she would choose a Chandler Bing type job just because they can pay well.

My super-clever DD, all A-stars at GCSE, left school at 16 to train to be a ballet dancer. Happily now working as a dancer in a top national company. I still, worry, though.

My brother wanted to leave school at 16 and start earning. My parents persuaded him that A levels may eventually mean more money then he could earn leaving school. He did something vocational at Uni that he was genuinely interested in over something academic for the sake of it and now earns a fortune compared to my arts degree with better A level results.

As an aside I wouldn't recommend coding bootcamps. Not only is the market for developers saturated and favouring 'diverse' candidates there are also far easier jobs to get in technology that not only pay as well but don't require as much effort - lots at the start and then throughout your working life. 'Coding' is also vulnerable to AI, offshoring, etc.

We have project managers, business analysts, security analysts etc all coming from diverse backgrounds such as Fashion, merchandising, musicians, loads. All needing great communication and close to the business s No idea why the media keeps pushing 'code code code' and the idea of it as a great career.

Young people these days will be working till they drop. Even if you change career after a decade at the workforce, say, in your early 30's you've still got 30+ years of working life left. It's just a blip.

The only issue I'd say is if you want a house + family you might not be able to afford retraining or the drop in income. But that's a separate issue.

Good for him. All the (good) tradespeople I know make a very good living.

how does it work in France though if he went to a lycee general? As ideally he’d have gone to a lycee pro? Are apprenticeships available?

I know (think) that you don’t pay the massive uni fees that we have to pay in the UK. With regards to my own sons, uni is so expensive I will only encourage if they are dead set on it and specifically want a career that requires it

Thanks @turnthepotatoes that's really helpful advice. He does have great communication skills and people often comment on how articulate he is so those jobs could be a better fit for him....unless Glastonbury beckons 🤣

Sounds as if he is well motivated and that is what counts in the end. As for your mother I am sure she would welcome a plumber and not an academic when faced with a flood.

Increasingly he tells us he doesn't want to go to uni, to do anything academic, he doesn't want to study for umpteen years. he says that he wants to train in a trade, to start earning (lots) of money asap, have his own business - though having said that he doesn't know anyone who has done this.
Interesting. You always hear about social mobility in one direction: it's always "why can't a plumber's DC be a barrister?", it's never "why can't a barrister's DC be a plumber?" A lot of jobs come through connections, not just the plummy ones. Tradespeople beget tradespeople.
I suggest that he trains at a big company, learns how to do it properly (i.e. not pick up bad habits at the local cowboy outfit), get qualifications and contacts. Then set up his own company.
Sorry to generalise but from what I've seen in the UK a lot of tradespeople aren't the sharpest or most driven (e.g. may skive technical college). The ones that are rise to the top, and go on to employ their less-driven school chums. So if your DS is the sharpest then he will fly (I.e. his plan makes sense).

My child is only at GCSE stage but I suspect may go down this route. He is extremely academic (gets 8/9s with no revision) but isn't really interested in any of his subjects. He is also very practical and hands-on and I think would be very well-suited to a trade. I am cheering him on, to be honest. I work in a highly academic environment and most people I work with are miserable. I think working at a computer all day, and within a big organisation, does not suit a lot of people, and there is a lot of mental satisfaction to be got from doing something hands-on and tangible.

At the end of the day, it's his life/future... not yours, your mother's, anyone else in the extended family's. Let him make his own choices; at 15 he's certainly old enough to start doing so.

But to answer your question; yes, I have a son who was academic at school, had his teachers and grandparents pile on the pressure for him to go to university... and who is now, at 19, a qualified carpenter. Whilst I would have preferred him to go on to do 'A'-levels and then university (like all his friends), as someone with a doctorate, myself, and an older child with a university level education... I know that my son would have hated it, that he prefers working with his hands, and, well, quite frankly, if he ever changes his mind then he can always do 'A'-levels as an adult and/or study for a degree. There's no cut off point when it comes to education (when I was doing my undergraduate, many years ago, in a practical field, one of my fellow students was in his seventies having done the corporate/ breadwinner role for long enough that when he retired, he decided to study a field that he'd always wanted to, but was talked out of because the pay was diabolical...it still is!).

The only problem my son faced on his course was the fact that his tutor(s) struggled to comprehend that he was there because he wanted to be, rather than having to be because he'd fucked up his GCSEs. Our local trade college is where the kids (mostly boys, perhaps rather tellingly) who mucked around in school and/or fucked up their exams ended up because here, in the UK, kids have to be in education until they're 18 (or full-time work/an apprenticeship but that's easier said than done these days). Did he get bored...? Less so, I think, than if he'd been sat in a classroom or a university lecture having someone waffle at him. A lot of the family couldn't grasp why I supported his decision, but, as I said above: it's not my life, he was old enough to make an informed decision regarding his future (and we had plenty of chats about it and I encouraged him to do his course research first). and I would much rather have a happy tradesman as a son than a miserable university student who's taking up a space because Mum & Dad are insistent that they can only follow a certain path...

My (also academic) daughter chose to go to university, my son chose to become a carpenter. They're both quite happy with the paths that they chose to walk along, and as their Mum... that means that I'm also happy.

If he’s bright and presumably will be savvy enough let him give that a go. Why not?

Not into trade but refused point blank to go to university to begin his working life with a load of debt. Took apprenticeship with global City firm. Qualifications and training paid for. Salary increase and bonus every year. Has car and deposit for buying house 3 years in. He's happy so is family.

in the UK there are now degree apprenticeships….getting paid whilst working and doing a degree would perhaps be the best of both worlds for your son,any options similar in France? I am considering it for my kids as financially it makes a lot of sense these days!

Sorry but I don't think prestigious apprenticeship but no degree counts as a 'different' path. They can always get a degree later (often the employer pays) . Or take a 'career break' either way their future is assured .and those apprenticeships can be much more competitive than a graduate job!
I know many who went to uni anyway after failing to get any.
They didn't use to be, people preferred the 'uni experience' but now that it's so expensive they're thinking twice.

Big firms with turnover of over 1.5 million have to contribute to the apprenticeship pot by law, so they're now starting to take full advantage of it.

Let him make this decision. Nothing is irrevocable.

If he does not like it there is nothing to stop him doing a degree later - my Mum did one with OU at 60! - and I retrained as a photographer at 50, having had my fill of social work.

I have a friend who is an electrician - he is extraordinarily intelligent, but chose the trade path and has been very happy.

My OH had as brain like a planet with qualifications coming out of his ears. He studied first biochemistry and then medicine and led a miserable life, unable to deal with the responsibility and workload - he became seriously depressed and anxious.

The most important thing is that your son should follow a career that he enjoys - contentment beats social kudos every time. I have watched the decline of my professionally respected OH - the money is not worth it.

I was forced to do A Levels not work (first choice) or do an art course (second choice).

It seriously fucked me up for a long time.

There is nothing wrong with working in a trade.

Increasingly he tells us he doesn't want to go to uni, to do anything academic, he doesn't want to study for umpteen years.
I can sympathise. In my day, a degree made you stand out from the crowd. Then it needed a Masters. Now it's becoming a Doctorate (a friend's DS is currently having a mental breakdown over his PhD).
It's turned into a silly arms race.