Anyone had an academic child go down the trades / vocational path?

[rickyrickygrimes]

To not drip feed, we are in France, not the UK.

Here, students generally split between academic and vocational studies at 15. Lycée general is for the more academic, lycée pro is for the more vocational.

DS has always been academic-ish. He's bright, works hard (when he wants to). He goes to one of the best (read most high scoring and academic) lycée general in the country: it just happens to be his catchment lycée so he's got the right to go there anyway, but he does get the marks too.

Increasingly he tells us he doesn't want to go to uni, to do anything academic, he doesn't want to study for umpteen years. he says that he wants to train in a trade, to start earning (lots) of money asap, have his own business - though having said that he doesn't know anyone who has done this. All our family are university educated / professionals. Do any of you have experience of children choosing to go down a vocational route when they could have gone to Uni? How did you feel about it? Are they bored? Do they regret it?

I can't work out my reaction. I can sense my mum clutching her pearls at the very thought of her wonderful, clever, grandson becoming a plumber - and I am doing the same, a bit. It's not my finest moment.

I was an accountant in practice and met a lot of self employed tradesmen over the years.

They were generally very smart. Some still worked just for themselves and others had built businesses from their trade.

Let your son follow his passion.

My DS was all set for A levels and Uni then out of the blue announced he wanted to do an electrical apprenticeship. He’s very bright but it’s a lot of learning still but earning money at the same time. He’s really loving it. My DH and I were similarly unsure like you but this was definitely right for him! Good luck to your DS!

'Social mobility' is interesting,
I'm not British so I never understood why for example people were concerned about 'plumber's sons' becoming musicians or barristers. When all the plumbers were rolling in it already. Maybe I'm just money-minded but a musician doesn't earn much... so why?

My academic DS trained to become a sports instructor rather than go to uni. He ignored the school who were encouraging him to apply to uni and his grandparents who keep sending him links to uni courses. Me and his dad told him to follow his dream.
He's currently working abroad and having the time of his life.

Uni will still be there if he ever wants a change of career and needs a degree to do it. And then he will choose the relevant degree. That's better than going aged 18 if you're not sure of your career path.

My brother did. Straight A student, went to university, didn't work out for him, so he left and started an engineering apprenticeship. They put him through professional qualifications, as well as a degree and then a Masters. He's now a highly qualified and experienced engineer, and is reasonably high up in the big international company that he started with. He could work anywhere, but they are a good employer who offer lots of opportunities, including international secondments. He probably progressed more quickly than he would have just going to university as he was getting practical experience while studying.

Something to note though, apprenticeships are no longer for the academically less able. Everyone his company takes on is older than the minimum age, has excellent grades, and has spent time doing further study while working. They want a return for their investment.

In short, I think it's worthwhile considering. Earn while you learn, with the added bonus of a job, rather than racking up debt while studying with no guarantee of a job at the end of it.

I have 3 dc. Dd1 did maths at Durham. So pretty academic.
Dd2 is probably naturally slightly better at maths that dd1 because she's very intuitive, but much less hard working.
Ds is probably slightly less good, but not a lot, and also has health issues.

Dd2 is currently doing musical theatre and ds wants to do an apprenticeship.
I do have qualms about dd2's future earning capacity because it's such a dodgy career. I hope I am proved wrong and she makes a real go of it, but statistics are not brilliant in that area of work. I would have no such worries about being a plumber or similar though because there is the work out there.
For ds, I think it's the right decision, as he's never really enjoyed school.

I hope in 20 years time I say they all made the right decision, but my role now is to discuss with them the pitfalls, and benefits and support their choice.

I know a few academic people who decided to learn a trade rather than go to university (wanted to start earning straight away/didn’t want to be saddled with a student loan/wanted a practical job doing what they enjoyed).

One of them became an electrician in a firm where there was opportunity to progress and he’s now an electrical engineer earning £70k doing normal hours and loving his role. He says he gets to use his brain doing programming whilst also doing the practical hands on work that he’s always enjoyed.

I also know a couple of people that didn’t go to uni at 18 as they weren’t sure what they wanted to do and spent a few years earning money in different sectors before going to uni as mature students once they had a better idea of what path they wanted to take. I’m not sure whether this is a possibility in France but if so it doesn’t mean he’s tied to whatever he decides now if he changes his mind.

@Sportycustard
But your DS will get a music degree from conservatoire? I don't understand why it's lesser than computer science at Warwick? It's just a different subject.

Thank you so much all of you.

@contrary13 your post really speaks to me. I too have a doctorate, as does my sister. It was so important to my parents that we 'excelled' academically. I remember telling my mum, in a rebellious phase, that I was going to do my undergrad at a 'new' university and a course that included a work experience element... but I ended up going to the local Russell group uni in the end: it was a short-lived rebellion. Imagine what she'd have said if I wasn't going to uni at all!

Add to that we really don't have any family members who are in trades, with the exception of my dad's best friend who was a joiner - this was always qualified by pointing out that he had his own very successful business, he wasn't 'just' a joiner of course 🙄.

Our local trade college is where the kids (mostly boys, perhaps rather tellingly) who mucked around in school and/or fucked up their exams ended up because here, in the UK, kids haveto be in education until they're 18 (or full-time work/an apprenticeship but that's easier said than done these days).

This bit concerns me more than I want to admit. We live in a really posh part of the city (not rich, just started renting here years ago), the school are very good and DSs friends are without exception 'naice'. I think he'll get a shock if he reorientates to the local lycée pro-type stream.

I work with engineering apprentices. It is a very high standard, 5 years down the line they'll be on more money than I have ever seen, plenty of opportunities for development, progression and working overseas if they want it.

No idea why people see it as second rate, my degree didn't do me any favours financially.

what would you like your son to do what career path did you expect? i mean we are always going to need plasterers or plumbers. what trade was he thinking.

We live in a really posh part of the city (not rich, just started renting here years ago), the school are very good and DSs friends are without exception 'naice'. I think he'll get a shock if he reorientates to the local lycée pro-type stream.

How does the school system work? Would he need to change schools to go down the vocational route, and if so, when? Could he do a visit, or a taster day, to help him see if it's really what he wants?

I think he'll get a shock if he reorientates to the local lycée pro-type stream.
Try to get him some work experience at a plumbers, if you can, so he can do a 'try before you buy'.
Can he get work exp at 15? It's practically impossible here in the UK because insurance won't cover it, but there are always unofficial routes.

My daughter is academic but dropped out after the first year of university and is now assistant manager in retail. Working her way up and just bought a new build with partner on shared ownership.
Son did carpentry at college but then decided to join the arm and has just passed out as a paratrooper.
My youngest has asd and is clever but has said the plumbing course at college is the thing that has really interested him for September. I sure he will embrace it and fly.

DS1 has AAA at A level but decided to join the army instead of going to university. It was the best thing he could have ever done tbh. He’s flying through the ranks, it changed him from a shy, reserved young man, into a confident, outgoing one.

I was a bit iffy when he said he was going because I wasn’t sure he would be the right fit, but looking back now, I know university wouldn’t have been right. He probably would have been home after the first term. I’m really proud of the man he is and incredibly proud that he had the courage to not go with what society thought he should do, but what he knew what was best for him.

The guy who used to do our plumbing had a very detailed knowledge of philosophy and philosophers. I can't even remember how we got onto the subject, but we might have been talking about religion to start with. He's a friend of DP's dad, so I didn't just strike up a philosophical conversation with a stranger who came to fit our toilet. But I remember wondering to myself why he hadn't gone to university, with all that amazing knowledge in his head - and then I remembered how much he was charging us😆 Not that I think tradespeople aren't intelligent - my grandfather was a joiner and also a published author and playwright - just this particular man really stood out.

It's a total non- problem! "My son is very academic and also very practical and driven". Er....count yourself lucky he actively wants a job/ career!
Doesn't really matter what the job is, as long as there's motivation there.
Think of the rest of us, with not particularly academic OR practical children, who would really rather sit around in their pants gaming.
Bitter? I'm not bitter 😂
Seriously, I clearly am not from a world where anyone would have a problem with a kid wanting to be a plumber but can it really be such an issue for anyone these days?

I'm a senior academic in a well-regarded university. My plumber earns more than I do. And my experience of teaching students is that far too many go to university because they want the "student experience" rather than because they've given careful consideration to their career path.

I honestly don’t know. There is a huge amount of snobbery towards lycée pro. To actively choose to leave his current lycée and go down the pro route would be very very unusual and I have no doubt the school would be completely against it. They just won’t understand why someone would turn their back on the opportunities to graduate from there. It’s very different to the UK. This is his one and only chance to do the bac générale, and without that he’d never be able to do anything even vaguely academic again.

another thing is that engineering is a completely different thing in France - it’s a highly respected, selective field to get into. Lycée pro would only give him qualifications to work in one, very narrow, job.

That was a reply to @DuesToTheDirt

Support your DS. If he is bright and numerate as well as handy, he is well placed to have his own successful company. He could be the Charlie Mullins of his generation (though hopefully less of a twat than CM).

By the way. OP. have you considered that your DS is ahead of the curve? I can't see plumbing being overtaken by AI or outsourced to China/India.

You should be proud, I’m afraid your concerns come across as a bit snobbish

I used to joke that I was hoping one of my DC would become a plumber. It's a good income and they are never short of work but of course they wanted to go the academic route.
When I was a teenager in the 70s I knew virtually no-one who went to university. Two that I can remember from the whole school. I wanted to train as a chef but my parents and teachers were aghast because I was bright enough to do anything and I was pushed into the A level route. I dropped out.

I’m a university educated professional, as is my husband. If there was even a hint of interest in a trade from our A* level kids I’d be pursuing it!
I don’t get any class difference. My dad was a tradesman and he was never out of work, genuinely loved what he did and as a practical person, could turn his hand to anything.
my job is quite practical, I think if I had just become a joiner I would probably be a much happier (and financially well off ) human.
whatever makes him happy is exactly what he should be doing. He can always do a BEng or something later if he wanted.