Tips on parenting and living with two “big” jobs

[Chicci1]

Would love advice from anyone in a similar position. Myself and dh work full time in “big” jobs and have two dc in primary school. Dh has just accepted a promotion which is going to mean longer hours and more stress but is a big step forward in his career. At the moment we’re managing using wrap around care and a cleaner once a week but life is hectic. I find the extra curricular stuff particularly hard to manage. We’re both full time with no chance of reducing days and can usually each work from home one day a week. The other days we take turns to drop and collect. I’m not sure what sort of magic wand I’m looking for but any tips would be welcome!

@Chicci1 having been there done that in a very female-unfriendly industry, I can tell you that I have used : GP’s (Great, until ‘Nanny says I don’t have to do my homework if I don’t want to’ 🙄) An actual Nanny/Housekeeper - Amazing (until she wanted to open her own nursery and travel the world). A nanny share (also great and we took turns as to whose house the kids would be fed at/did homework at). An Au Pair (we were lucky with ours but it is hard work getting them settled and is like having another child you are responsible for). We also had to have a cleaner, handyman/gardener to keep on top of house stuff. What I learned was that business trips required a military level of precision and both of you have to be on the same page when it comes to supporting the other. Plus you both need to agree what to do when the kids/nanny are sick. When the kids are little, it is much easier as they tend to do what they are told, but then you hit 11+ entrance exams and that is a stress which you feel required to be around for. Then the teen years are when they actually really need you even though it looks like they don’t. I actually stepped back to do the GCSE years and A levels and I don’t regret it. Not very ‘girl power’ and all that, but I did what I thought was right at the time.

On the house front, a regular delivery slot, all bills via DD, agreement as to who looks after what in terms of house admin… he does bins, I do meter readings etc. All school events take priority over any other meetings.

There is no magic wand, my advice is definitely don’t get a dog 😂 on the upside, my DC have no recollection of me working as hard as I did when they were little so all of that mum guilt was a waste of energy…

Congratulations on the promotion and best of luck!

I loved seeing my parents work. I think one of the simplest and most beneficial things a parent can do for a child is model getting up and going to work every day. No harm to teach them that different adults can love and care for them too.

You mean that working parents can raise their children with their own morals and values. 😯😂

yeah god forbid a woman put her kids first.

The way that actually works is one takes a step back to take on more family/house stuff, which allows the other to go pedal to the metal and their career soars, then when it’s time to swap back the person who’s gone part-time/taken time off is a couple of years behind on training/networking/promotions and struggles to find a position similar to or better than the one they left, and the person whose career soared is now so senior they don’t want to give up their money/position, debate rages on and the part-timer further stagnates and the other one climbs, until it reaches a point where they really can’t swap without a serious hit to family finances. Basically what happens to millions of women who take time out when the DC are small and look up from the chaos a few years later to find the ship has sailed without them.

I’m guessing those with actual “big jobs” have the money and the sense to know they need a nanny and a cleaner rather than asking strangers on the internet

Obviously I'm not saying 24/7, there's a big difference between that and only seeing your kids in the weekend. Raising them is essentially your time, otherwise you may as well just send them off to boarding school when they're a year old or maybe at birth. Maybe they can't 'afford' to take a step back (could do flexi hours, many manage) for a year or two each but it is worth looking at. I guess essentially people need to think into the future, I've often read that's something that people on their death beds say .... no one wished they had spent more time at work ...

The saddest thing is that these careers demand massive compromises to family life it seems to succeed.
Equally demanding if you are male or female etc
I did very high flying jobs. Earn my tons. Worked tons of hours. But then realised my quality of life was actually pretty pants and we are all disposable. I did a career change in less money but challenging interesting job in decent hours where I am in control.

I absolutely agree that you should outsource everything, just not the time with your kids. PP further down does this. You should spend your time on value-add stuff, housework isn't it

I've often seen it as a stick to beat working mothers with because no one tells working fathers that they aren't raising their children, they are only little for so long, you won't get this time back etc as well as the no one wished they had spent more time at work.

Raising children is more than spending time with them, I think it's short sighted to suggest otherwise. I think people need to think of the future too but for different reasons. In my industry for example, the more senior you are, the more flexibility and control you have over managing your diary/meetings etc and the more freedom you have to WFH. Losing that due to stepping down and 'taking time out' wouldn't be good in the long term for our family personally.

A Sunday negotiation where you both look at your calendars so you can work out who covers mornings and evenings around client events, early meetings etc. Try and get home to enjoy some evening time and then work again around 9pm onwards. Outsource everything eg cleaner, gardener and keep weekend extra curricular activities to a minimum so you get some down time and family time. My kids aren't at school yet so our nanny is invaluable. Only ever online shop and keep meals to things that can be made in under 20 mins and Deliveroo whenever you're tired. Don't overcompensate out of guilt eg buy costumes off amazon and buy cakes for bake sales.

This.

Women taking a step back from their career is so short-sighted if they hope to return to their career. 1 or 2 years out can cost you 5-10 years in progression. That’s the brutal reality.

Similar to this, having had a SAHM for much of my childhood makes me never, ever want to become a SAHM.

It would be simply unthinkable for me to make myself financially dependent on someone else.

I'm really sad that OP came here for a bit of advice, but it's turned into a bit of a pile on.
This isn't what she asked for or deserved.

OP, I hope you've managed to take the good advice here, and shut out the judgements.
I will tell you as I tell my friend who is torn between being a SAHM or keeping her career in law.
As long as you are an involved committed parent when you are around, that's what matters to your children, that they know you will prioritise their needs, and love them.

The upside of your big career is you are demonstrating to them what a successful life is, and that you matter as a person outside of being a parent. You will open up opportunities to them with the money you earn, contacts that you have, and general life experiences you encounter and pass on.

In 13/14/15 years, you will be proud of the example you have been to your children as they start to create ideas of what their life will be when they embark on their own careers, whilst many of the SAHMs will be struggling to get back into their old careers, you will have years of flourishing in your field.

I'm a nanny/housekeeper for a family with 4 children..they both have 'big jobs'.
I help with school runs, do all the household jobs. (Washing /bed changing) Step in if any of the children are off school. Walk the dog/take it to vets appointments..
I get paid very well to take the strain off them both.
Could this be an option?

I always have seen this as failure on my part. I might have had my children close together and worked incredibly hard in the gaps, I even worked for nil net gain with 4 in childcare full time. As I went down to part time, whenever the children were ill, I would be the one taking time off and making sacrifices - I was in the UK and not travelling with work.

I never regained any real career momentum until the children were teenagers but which time I was in my mid 40s and considered too old for promotion.

With hindsight, in order to have kept my career prospects open, I should have taken short maternity absences, hired a full time nanny and spent every penny on help even if it meant debt, as the jumps up the ladder would have followed quickly.

I've never seen this, I know plenty of people who have taken time off for sabbaticals (travel etc). I did this at 26 then again at 38 to travel (a year at a time) and I don't think it had any effect. How does 1-2 years, equal 5-10 years? I totally accept 1-2 years, can equal 1-2 years, but equally it's very possible to get back to where you were, if you apply for the right role (career progression, which most people do when moving roles) and are competant and capable. Also, the woman doesn't have to be the one who takes the break!

It’s obviously not just the career breaks to have babies - mat leave is standard across the board. What I and several PP are talking about is: going part-time, abandoning your career for a ‘family friendly’ job, not going for promotions, doing the lion’s share of childcare and housework instead of splitting this equally with your partner.

All of that combined mean that women invariably shaft themselves after they have kids.

Then if they find themselves in the 50% of couples who get divorced they see their ex-husband swan off to enjoy a high paying career for the next 20 years while she’s left to fend for herself in a much lower paid job having set herself back 10 years in her own career.

The woman is the one who is put under more pressure though, it is almost always her who ends up doing it.

She's told she should put her children first, she won't get this time back, money isn't important etc whereas men are big heroes for continuing their big jobs.

My mother used to refer to poo as a “big job”, eg a dog’s just done a big job on the lawn! Or “was it a wee or a big job?”

I realise I have missed the point of the thread but thought it was worth a mention

Also yeah nanny/cleaner/gardener - DONE

Oh, that's interesting - could I ask why, @SouthLondonMum22 ?

It's complete bollocks to think having children doesn't torpedo a woman's earning capacity if she's a professional unless it's handled very carefully. There reams of bloody data. Woman don't make what men make across the board.

Being in charge of international department that needs you to be available and capable of fairly high level problem solving at all hours is a major strain if small children are involved. The closer you get to the money the less women you find. On our board there are 10 men and 1 woman. Her children are now in uni. On my senior management team I am the only woman out of 7. It's bloody brutal. I don't have a wife's. I am the wife!

Outsource it ALL. Feel no guilt. Gardener, housekeeper, PA, nanny...whatever makes it work.

@Sintel i’d tend to agree sadly…. Even Helena Morrissey (and her 9! Children) could only work because her DH was a SAHD,

Because for as long as I remember, I felt smothered. We (I have a sister) became her whole life which wasn't healthy.

I also saw what it did to her confidence and mental health.

@Pinkprescription - this is how I feel. I also then became a single parent when my DC were 6 and 3 ( and one has SEN) and Ive never managed to recover my career, because despite trying my best I just couldn’t be as reliable as others. And this was in a workplace that really tried to be supportive. I still find it difficult to accept if I’m honest.

I agree with others, if you are earning enough the answer is a nanny/housekeeper who you really trust. This allows you to spend time with the kids not cleaning, and gives that back up. And to embrace this guilt free.

As an aside my dad worked really long hours and loved his job. Lived away for some
of the week. When he was dying he said he had absolutely no regrets and had loved every moment of his life - including work. So I don’t think the ‘people never say they wish they’d spent more time at work on their deathbed’ is true for everyone!

Get an at pair or live in nanny?

Order food shop online plus use Hello Fresh or similar.