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A moral dilemma - what would you do?

128 replies

TheTripThatWasnt · 30/11/2023 09:21

Have name changed, as this is identifiable. I tried to change details, but it all got too far from the original scenario to be useful. Be warned - it's long, but don't want to drip feed down the line.

Here's the situation...

A, B and C have been friends for 30 years (since Uni). They don't see each other that much any more (living several hours from each other), but they're regularly in contact, and when they meet up it's like they've never been apart. All have quite different lives/lifestyles, but all are in good jobs, financially secure, and don't need to 'worry' about money.

A and B are 50 soon (C was 50 in lockdown), so they decided to go away for the weekend to celebrate, and a trip on Eurostar was booked.

In the night, the night before they were travelling, A's husband had a bad accident and broke several bones. A spent the night with him in A&E, then he had to be admitted overnight. He was due to be released on the next morning (the day of travel), but was completely immobile and needed care at home (plus they have a young son). This meant A couldn't travel.

B&C faced a dilemma - to go anyway, or to cancel. Travel and first night's hotel were non-refundable. They felt that going was definitely not the right thing to do (seeing as celebrating A's birthday was a big part of the reason for going). But both called their travel insurance providers to see what they said.

Both travel insurance companies agreed that yes, their policy should cover them for this scenario (both B&C were very clear about the exact circumstances, and the reason that A couldn't travel), but that until a claim was submitted it was impossible to say 100%. On the strength of both insurance cos giving off the right vibes, B&C did the 'right thing' and the trip was cancelled.

All 3 then submitted insurance claims.
A's paid out straight away - no quibble from her insurer that she couldn't travel as her husband had the accident.
B's claim was initially rejected, B appealed, citing the call from the day of travel, but the underwriter still rejected it.
C's claim was initially rejected. C appealed, citing the call she'd made that morning. Her insurer agreed that she was given false information on the call, and therefore paid out.

B's insurer are not being as 'nice' as C's. They are saying that on the call they said it couldn't be guaranteed, and because B is not related to the person who had the accident, she isn't covered. They are not disputing the fact that A couldn't travel and therefore there are reasonable grounds for cancelling the trip.

Herein lies the dilemma. A and C are not out of pocket (apart from their excess), but B has lost all the money from the trip. All 3 have the same policy wording on their documents (so they don't have different insurance), but the different insurers have handled it differently.

Should A&C offer to share some of their refund with B? Clearly they don't have to - all 3 are independent of each other, and are financially responsible for their own costs of the trip. But would it be the nice thing to do to split the loss 3 ways and share the recovered funds 3 ways?

OP posts:
Almondsupreme · 30/11/2023 09:23

Yes , split the loss 3 ways

DustyLee123 · 30/11/2023 09:25

It would be very nice, and I’d expect B to refuse, but no. They all had insurance and all took the risk. I’d not expect to be paid out if I wasn’t A anyway.

Zapx · 30/11/2023 09:26

I would say yes, split it if all can afford to.

justalittlesnoel · 30/11/2023 09:26

Depends how long ago it happened - B should definitely try again and perhaps be a bit of a pain with the insurer.

If they're really good friends, I would sort of think it would be a shared loss as it was a shared decision. Especially as it was cancelled for such an unpredictable reason, in good faith based on information from the insurer. A / C wouldn't be responsible, but it would be lovely of them to share the cost with B.

ohdamnitjanet · 30/11/2023 09:26

Yes, definitely, they’re lucky to get anything back so should share what they did.

Whinge · 30/11/2023 09:27

Considering they've been friends for so long I would expect them to split 3 ways without hesitation.

If I was B and they had refused to split the costs then I would be really upset that money was more important to A + C than doing the right thing.

Dartmoorcheffy · 30/11/2023 09:28

Yes I think they should split so that it's equal for everyone

Snowpake · 30/11/2023 09:29

If I was C I would go halves with B and leave A out of it

Draoicht · 30/11/2023 09:29

DustyLee123 · 30/11/2023 09:25

It would be very nice, and I’d expect B to refuse, but no. They all had insurance and all took the risk. I’d not expect to be paid out if I wasn’t A anyway.

I agree.

FannyFifer · 30/11/2023 09:30

Yes def split it.

BrimfulOfMash · 30/11/2023 09:30

I would split the loss 3 ways. Or possibly share the loss between B&C. A simply couldn’t go, B&C took a joint ‘moral’ decision not to go.

The decision not to go was made equally between B&C, had B decided not to go because of the insurance doubt, would C have gone alone? No, probably not, they needed C!

It’s travel on Eurostar and one night’s accommodation. Split it.

Lottie2shoes · 30/11/2023 09:39

Hmm. This is a dilemma of sorts! I think it is nice if they did split it and I think I am the type that would.

But I guess, looking at it from the other side, I would be surprised that the insurance would pay out as A's husband was not related to either B or C so C was actually lucky that they got paid out.
So by cancelling, they were actually " entering at their own will", so to speak.
So B should not really expect any money as it was a gamble and unfortunately theirs did not pay off.

SirVixofVixHall · 30/11/2023 09:40

Yes, another agreement with the pps above, split it, and book a new trip .

bigpawsjames · 30/11/2023 09:41

Imaging invoicing your friend because her husband had a serious accident. No. B is not short of cash and should accept a shit thing happened. But not to her!

Avatartar · 30/11/2023 09:45

If as you say the policy wordings are the same, refer the whole scenario to the financial ombudsman and ask how is this “treating customers fairly”. The wordings may end up being different, but worth escalating to them to see if they decide B should be paid after all

TheTripThatWasnt · 30/11/2023 10:24

To answer some of the questions/points...

@bigpawsjames - there is no suggestion that B is going to 'invoice' the others. The only conversations thus far have been each exchanging their experiences with their insurers (on a whatsapp chat).
(Also, not a 'serious accident' - a bad accident, yes, but he's fine - a leg in plaster for 6 weeks, but will be totally fine)

@justalittlesnoel - it happened in the past few weeks. B's insurer confirmed just yesterday that they won't pay out (after going through 2 claims handlers and the underwriter). B has pushed it as far as they can with their insurer.

It's interesting that lots of people are surprised that B&C were expecting to be covered. They weren't sure, which is why both called their insurers as soon as they knew A couldn't go. But both insurers gave an indication that they would be covered (NB: both spoke to claims, not customer services), on the basis that the travel companion (A) was not able to travel.
(As an aside, if A, B and C were sisters, in the same scenario, insurance would pay out without a quibble, as then B&C would be related to the person who had the accident - exact same circumstances, but different result!)

OP posts:
saraclara · 30/11/2023 10:30

If they were all on one booking, then the insurer should pay out. It's if friends book the eurostar/flights etc separately that the insurers won't pay. I occasionally travel with a friend and we no longer book our flights separately for this reason.

Personally I'd feel dreadful if I got the money back and my friend didn't (assuming that she'd taken out the right insurance and generally done all the responsible things)

TheTripThatWasnt · 30/11/2023 10:37

saraclara · 30/11/2023 10:30

If they were all on one booking, then the insurer should pay out. It's if friends book the eurostar/flights etc separately that the insurers won't pay. I occasionally travel with a friend and we no longer book our flights separately for this reason.

Personally I'd feel dreadful if I got the money back and my friend didn't (assuming that she'd taken out the right insurance and generally done all the responsible things)

That's not the case. All travel insurance policies will only cover the person named on the policy. Both A and C looked into this independently before anyone submitted a claim. The official line is : insurers won’t refund any costs paid for on behalf of someone who’s not named on the insurance policy

So it's definitely up to all 3 to claim on their own policy. It doesn't matter that A booked everything - the insurance just needed to see proof of the booking and proof of the transfer of funds.
It's not a problem that A booked and B&C transferred the money - no issue at all with the insurers here.

If you book flights together with other people, and want to be covered together, you can get a group travel insurance policy. But A, B and C all have their own annual travel insurance, so didn't need to take out insurance specifically for this trip.

OP posts:
Mazuslongtoenail · 30/11/2023 10:38

I would split it.

However I’d be irked if A and I had paid for more expensive insurance and B had a budget policy and that’s what caused the difference. ~Although that wouldn’t happen because I’m the one who buys the cheapo scumbag one~

rickandmorts · 30/11/2023 10:43

I would expect A and C to give a third of their payout to B to make it fair. So if they both got paid £600 to give B £200 each so everyone ends up with £400. I would do this for my friend and would be annoyed if I was the one who lost everything on the trip.

BrightLightTonight · 30/11/2023 10:49

I would split it equally between the three

steppemum · 30/11/2023 10:52

well I think that no-one has to pay, you all got what you got from the insurers.

But I think it would be a nice gesture to pffer to help B with the claim. If I was A or C I would send her a some money, even if not 1/3 at least a generous amount.
If I was B and could afford it, I would refuse. But I would really really appreciate the gesture.
If I was B it would leave a sour taste in my mouth that I am so out of pocket, and the others not. I wouldn't blame A and C exactly, it would just leave me feeling flat, and so an offer of payment would go a long way. (and as I said I would probably refuse the money)

Not least because I assume that you are going to rearrange for another time and you all 3 want to go?

Freakinfraser · 30/11/2023 10:52

Nice to offer but honestly cringe if b accepts. B and c cancelled knowing there was a risk.

StartingAgainAgain23 · 30/11/2023 11:01

If that was me and 2 close friends of mine, the 2 that had received refunds would just transfer money to the person that hadn't so it was split 3 ways, wouldn't even give them chance to refuse.

'Hi friend, gutted that your insurers haven't paid out! We've split ours between us so that we've all managed to recuperate some cash back. Can use it towards to next trip, hope your husband is doing ok'

Wouldn't occur to me to do it any other way.

saraclara · 30/11/2023 11:01

TheTripThatWasnt · 30/11/2023 10:37

That's not the case. All travel insurance policies will only cover the person named on the policy. Both A and C looked into this independently before anyone submitted a claim. The official line is : insurers won’t refund any costs paid for on behalf of someone who’s not named on the insurance policy

So it's definitely up to all 3 to claim on their own policy. It doesn't matter that A booked everything - the insurance just needed to see proof of the booking and proof of the transfer of funds.
It's not a problem that A booked and B&C transferred the money - no issue at all with the insurers here.

If you book flights together with other people, and want to be covered together, you can get a group travel insurance policy. But A, B and C all have their own annual travel insurance, so didn't need to take out insurance specifically for this trip.

Edited

I get that you have to claim individually. But for the last five years the insurers I've used for my annual travel insurance have covered me for a companion being unable to travel for reasons such as A's, in the same way a family member would, as long as we're on the same booking.

My mistake is in generalising that (or maybe it only applies for one person?). But it's something I check every time, because our shared trips tend to be long haul. And every time they've said "as long as you're on the same booking"

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