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A moral dilemma - what would you do?

128 replies

TheTripThatWasnt · 30/11/2023 09:21

Have name changed, as this is identifiable. I tried to change details, but it all got too far from the original scenario to be useful. Be warned - it's long, but don't want to drip feed down the line.

Here's the situation...

A, B and C have been friends for 30 years (since Uni). They don't see each other that much any more (living several hours from each other), but they're regularly in contact, and when they meet up it's like they've never been apart. All have quite different lives/lifestyles, but all are in good jobs, financially secure, and don't need to 'worry' about money.

A and B are 50 soon (C was 50 in lockdown), so they decided to go away for the weekend to celebrate, and a trip on Eurostar was booked.

In the night, the night before they were travelling, A's husband had a bad accident and broke several bones. A spent the night with him in A&E, then he had to be admitted overnight. He was due to be released on the next morning (the day of travel), but was completely immobile and needed care at home (plus they have a young son). This meant A couldn't travel.

B&C faced a dilemma - to go anyway, or to cancel. Travel and first night's hotel were non-refundable. They felt that going was definitely not the right thing to do (seeing as celebrating A's birthday was a big part of the reason for going). But both called their travel insurance providers to see what they said.

Both travel insurance companies agreed that yes, their policy should cover them for this scenario (both B&C were very clear about the exact circumstances, and the reason that A couldn't travel), but that until a claim was submitted it was impossible to say 100%. On the strength of both insurance cos giving off the right vibes, B&C did the 'right thing' and the trip was cancelled.

All 3 then submitted insurance claims.
A's paid out straight away - no quibble from her insurer that she couldn't travel as her husband had the accident.
B's claim was initially rejected, B appealed, citing the call from the day of travel, but the underwriter still rejected it.
C's claim was initially rejected. C appealed, citing the call she'd made that morning. Her insurer agreed that she was given false information on the call, and therefore paid out.

B's insurer are not being as 'nice' as C's. They are saying that on the call they said it couldn't be guaranteed, and because B is not related to the person who had the accident, she isn't covered. They are not disputing the fact that A couldn't travel and therefore there are reasonable grounds for cancelling the trip.

Herein lies the dilemma. A and C are not out of pocket (apart from their excess), but B has lost all the money from the trip. All 3 have the same policy wording on their documents (so they don't have different insurance), but the different insurers have handled it differently.

Should A&C offer to share some of their refund with B? Clearly they don't have to - all 3 are independent of each other, and are financially responsible for their own costs of the trip. But would it be the nice thing to do to split the loss 3 ways and share the recovered funds 3 ways?

OP posts:
Sugarfree23 · 30/11/2023 15:20

Really i wouldn't expect anyone to split. But I also don't get B&C for not going. I'm surprised the insurance even paid out for C.

At a push C as a goodwill gesture could split with B but I really wouldn't expect A to split. The accident may have already cost her money (Lost earnings, taxis, insurance excess, etc)

TheTripThatWasnt · 30/11/2023 15:33

@purplecorkheart - but isn't that exactly what travel insurance is for? To cover you if you're not able to travel. Clearly there is some interpretation about the situation here, but what's not in dispute is that the trip wasn't able to progress as planned. I can't believe anyone in those circumstances wouldn't phone their insurance company to check. And both were very clear to their insurers what the exact circumstances are (both insurers have listened to the calls and confirmed there is no ambiguity there). It's on those grounds (that the situation was clearly explained) that C's insurer has paid out. If they'd said 'no chance' then a different set of circumstances informs the decision making. But as it was, the insurance claims depts gave sufficient confidence that a claim would go through (these are well known, big insurers - not the ones that no-one's ever heard of who appear at the top of all the aggregator lists!)

@Gymmum82 - they didn't cancel 'without hesitation'. Far from it. But they did have to make a decision in a short space of time (you can't cancel Eurostar once it's open for check in)

OP posts:
Ittastesvile · 30/11/2023 15:45

I would leave A out of it. They didn't choose not to go - they couldn't go.

I suppose splitting it between B and C would be nice but if I were B I wouldn't expect it. I'd avoid using that insurer in future though. I wouldn't be upset with C.

I'd also have gone on the holiday without A tbh as I wouldn't have expected my insurance to cover me in this scenario unless I had concrete confirmation in writing!

OhComeOnFFS · 30/11/2023 15:49

I can't understand why B and C didn't go on the holiday together and plan an extra trip for when A was able to go.

I can't see why insurance should cover them, really.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 30/11/2023 15:57

Hmm, tough one. I tend to pay a bit more for insurance as I look at which ones are most likely to pay out if I need to claim. Maybe B had more of a budget option?

I think if I was A or C, I would offer to cover a share of B's loss. If I was B, I would absolutely refuse to accept this.

Lovingitallnow · 30/11/2023 15:59

I would put the money towards the next trip, if we were good friends and all financially doing well, then if I was A I'd say go go have a great time and if I were B/C I'd be saying wouldn't dream of it. Then at this stage if I were A/C I'd be saying well just put the money towards the flights etc for the next trip and B would be saying no no wouldn't dream of it. Thank you.

I also would be a pain in the arse for the insurer with B, asking for transcripts for the regulator is a good idea.

BIossomtoes · 30/11/2023 16:01

Snowpake · 30/11/2023 09:29

If I was C I would go halves with B and leave A out of it

I’d do that too.

caringcarer · 30/11/2023 16:06

If all 3 took out separate insurance they are each responsible for their own. A should not be paying as she had injured DH so couldn't travel. B and C took a risk on cancelling hoping that they'd get refunded. It worked for C but not B. Unfortunately B loses their money. Both B and C are adults responsible for assessing their own risk.

OhpoorMe · 30/11/2023 16:12

I think A should be offering to cover B's losses

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 30/11/2023 16:15

caringcarer · 30/11/2023 16:06

If all 3 took out separate insurance they are each responsible for their own. A should not be paying as she had injured DH so couldn't travel. B and C took a risk on cancelling hoping that they'd get refunded. It worked for C but not B. Unfortunately B loses their money. Both B and C are adults responsible for assessing their own risk.

Fundamentally, I agree with this. I think it would be kind of A and C to offer to share B's loss, but if I were B, I would absolutely consider it my responsibility and mine alone.

thesugarbumfairy · 30/11/2023 16:39

Well, if I applied the scenario to my own group of friends, which I easily could, then I would say split it. And so would my equivalent A, B and/or C.

MayThe4th · 30/11/2023 16:40

So to the people saying that an and C should cover B’s loss, if C hadn’t been refunded either would you think that A should split her refund three ways?

They’re all adults. They all made their own choices. They chose to cancel the trip at the risk of losing the money. To suggest that B has a right to be hurt if A and C don’t offer her money and that they should feel morally obliged to do so is ridiculous.

And I’d suggest that B read through the terms and conditions of her policy before running to the ombudsman, because the ombudsman is highly unlikely to care that X insurer paid out and to order that Y insurer owes B money.

I’m amazed that C’s insurer paid out tbh, and given it went to appeal before they did, I’d hazzard that there was an element of goodwill there.

AtrociousCircumstance · 30/11/2023 16:46

I suppose the question is, did B pay less for their insurance? Was it less costly than A and C’s?

balmysummerevening · 30/11/2023 16:51

but isn't that exactly what travel insurance is for? To cover you if you're not able to travel

But they WERE able to travel- they just didnt want to because their friend wasnt going. Thats not an inability travel, its a personal choice.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 30/11/2023 16:56

A was fully covered. B and C could have still gone on the trip. One was lucky, as it's usually a blanket no cover for disinclination to travel, one had the industry standard response.

At best, B & C should split the loss but it isn't compulsory.

A policy covering all three could easily have meant neither B or C were covered.

Source: my job for ten years.

Sugarfree23 · 30/11/2023 16:59

@TheTripThatWasnt
Op no matter which person you are it's really not worth throwing away a 30 year friendship over.

ThreeRingCircus · 30/11/2023 17:01

I definitely think B and C should have gone on the trip as it was still B's birthday and they could have celebrated with A at a different time.

A should be left out of it as they couldn't go, end of. B and C took a really big risk cancelling and that was the decision they made so the risk sits with them. I'm very surprised C got a payout to be honest, they've been very lucky!

I think it would be nice for C to offer to split their payout with B but if I were B I wouldn't dream of asking.

Puffypuffin · 30/11/2023 17:02

I think it should be split and if I was in this situation, I would offer to do so.

TheSeasonalNameChange · 30/11/2023 17:10

I think putting it all towards the replacement trip is a nice idea. Then if the final insurer pays out after escalation to the ombudsman you add to that and if not you have the trip you wanted together.

itsmylife7 · 30/11/2023 17:14

Yes absolutely split the cost.

passiveaggressivenonsense · 30/11/2023 17:18

You should all split the loss of course. A should be super grateful she has such loyal friends and A's DH should treat you all to dinner out, or pay you 3 a spa day to recognize your changing your plans to accommodate hîm.

whynotwhatknot · 30/11/2023 17:22

i think they paid out onl as a goodwill gesture b and c could physically still go thats how the insurers usually look at it

ZenNudist · 30/11/2023 17:23

Not helpful but B and C should have gone on the trip. Its pretty much standard that you van only get a refund for direct family member illness/ injury

ButterCrackers · 30/11/2023 17:23

B could split half of their refund with C. A should not split their refund because it was their medical emergency and that must have been awful. But as all are financially well off the best is for c to just put up with the situation. A and B could invite C for a dinner sometime to acknowledge the situation.
edit - I think I mixed up B and C.. the one who got the refund (B or C) could split it. But - The one who didn’t get the refund could just put up with it and the other two could offer a dinner invite.

User3735 · 30/11/2023 17:24

Of course they should offer!