If you have a lovely older child/teen with asd/adhd

[pandarific]

What parenting approaches do you think helped you raise them to be lovely? By lovely I mean: sweet, polite, pleasant to be around.

I am struggling a bit with my 5 yo DS who is very capable however is being defiant, showing aggression and doing a lot of demanding things without asking nicely ‘get me this’ ‘I want that’ as well as teasing his little sister - fairly age typical bad behaviour I know but it can be extreme and trying to contain bad behaviour when out etc is exhausting.

he is in a great school which is very asd friendly and we have the forms for a referral. ND is in the family and I am too most likely. teacher is fond of him, he is popular etc so I’m not too worried about the school element.

I just want to know I’m doing the right thing in general when parenting him, which is: validating his upset, allowing him space to calm down, coming down like a ton of bricks on any violence, making him repeat requests for things politely, etc etc.

I’ve ordered a course from Dr Becky for deeply feeling kids with a will of iron which looks good, I’m working on not losing my cool when he’s eg refusing to do something he needs to do (put on school clothes) and just holding the boundary - ie hits in the park he gets removed from the park until he can show he can behave well.

Any insight on what you did to help your child grow up well would be really appreciated, feeling fragile right now as I’m unwell and had a difficult weekend.

I honestly don't have a definitive answer for you but I think consistency is important. My sister thinks I'm too relaxed and lax as a parent, but me and my DC always knew there were lines and those lines were inked thick and dark and black and there was NO crossing them.

Eg violence is an instant one. I can be sympathetic to the emotions but I tended to treat any violence with immediate consequences - a sharp "No", child was instantly removed from whatever situation it was, there was NO discussing etc in the moment. Once things had calmed down, we might talk about it, but the overall message that violence was never going to be accepted was never deviated from and that my response was ALWAYS going to be completely firm.

Lots of praise for things they're good at and do well. Let them seek the positive because it works in their favour. I'd proactively tell them when they'd done something good or right - eg if the teacher mentioned something I might have a word about how great I think they were etc. Also, praise for effort. Obviously, there can be a line here where the child starts to think that they deserve praise for brushing their teeth, but if DS found something difficult but he gave it a go, he got lots of praise. If he brushed his teeth without me having to ask 10 times, it might just be a more simple, casual, ."thank you for doing that".

Re asking nicely, snatching etc - yes, it's just the consistent, relentless, calm, repeated, "what do you say? how do you ask nicely?" etc.

As he got older and was asking for more independence, we again had very strict lines and boundaries. We actually gave him independence a bit earlier than many of his friends - he was so desperate for it and we felt that actually, there was an opportunity to let him have it while he's still grateful to us for it and therefore would listen. And again, consistency was key. So, "you can walk home from school but you have to come straight home. If you're not back by 3:30, then you won't be allowed to walk home next time." And again, complete consistency - if he's allowed to walk, he's allowed to walk. He can't cope with things changing without a really good reason which I saw a lot of other parents doing, "no, not today, I don't want to deal with it" or whatever.

It has really worked out for us as now that he's nearly, this concept of doing things within the lines is quite entrenched in him.

Mine's an adult now and he is absolutely lovely.

One thing that helped when he was young was recognising the things he found difficult and role playing them at home until he had the skills to use them outside the home.

For example, changeover times were a big issue. Setting off to somewhere, leaving somewhere, always stressful. So we'd practice "Leaving Thomas's house"

First I'd be me and he'd be him
Me - "BurglarJr, it's time to go home now!"
B - "NO! I am playing I want to stay."
etc.

Then me being him, and really hamming it up, which always made him laugh, seeing Mummy in a big strop. Silly, I know, but it was why he would engage in the role play because he liked seeing me be daft.

Then me as him reacting more positively.

Then finally back to being ourselves, but I would give him a 15 minute advance warning, a 5 minute reminder, then time to go. We'd suggest wording to each other to help improve the situation.

We'd practice this once againb before we actually went to Thomas's house to play, and when he'd look likely to kick off, I'd remind him, "wait, we know how to do this - or should be have another practice?" which was usually enough of a prompt to keep him on an even keel.

We did this for all sorts of situations. We also practiced calming down techniques together for when he felt "fiery" as he called it.

It takes time and patience, but for us it worked.

Thank you, those are both really helpful answers. @KatBurglar what kind of calming down techniques did you do?

Sparkle jar was his favourite at that age, iirc.

EXTREMELY well sealed jam jar (very important to prevent accidents) filled with water, food colouring of his choice and glitter. When angry he'd shake it and shake it, then put it on his table and watch the jar until the glitter settled to the bottom again, taking long slowed-down breathes.

He found it helpful to have a visual repersentation of fiery feelings, and see them settle as he slowed his breathing. Taking them from inside himself to an external and safe place.

@KatBurglar I'm interested in your comments. Not for my DS - he's got inattentive ADHD and the sort of challenges you're referring to were not ours. But we have a young relative who has a lot of tantrums and meltdowns and DH and I are convinced he's ND and needs help.

But the issue is that this sort of behaviour isn't seen as negative by him. If I said to him, "RelativeChild, when you get so angry and upset, here's a jar to shake" he wouldn't do it because he doesn't want to manage his behaviour. Does that make sense?

As opposed to DS who actively wanted to figure out how he could learn to do the things other children did and who was frustrated that he couldn't. Or DD (admittedly NT) who when she was struggling to learn to regulate her emotions, would have been very pleased to have a tool that would help her.

It's just their personality. Sorry.

Agree.

My DC are older, one autistic and one NT. They are both kind, gentle, polite people. I'm not sure it's anything we've done but more how they were wired.

@BlackeyedSusan @WhatAreYouAllAbout well then why bother parenting well, if it’s just their personality, surely?

Most experts recognize that nature and nurture are both factors which play a critical role in who we are and who we become, I’m on that team.

Ha! I've done some amazing parenting then and I'll toot my own parenting horn 💨

Honestly, I do think personality/nature has the biggest influence.

I honestly think children model the behaviour they're shown. When ds is abrupt, I explain that it's better to say xyz. I don't shame him and I'm not abrupt with him. If I do get things wrong, I will apologize to him.

My exh is a bully and complains DS is rude to him. I think ex is exceptionally rude and aggressive and DS does not respect him.

I think as much love and understanding and calm you can provide is the best thing you can do. But ADHD is a really hard one. And with another child, that's harder.

I sometimes feel grateful we're a family of two. A lot of the time it's hard but for ASD, it's good.

@pandarific I agree. Nature of course plays a role, and every now and again you meet that one kid who frankly is just a "wrong un". But it's rare.

The issues you're talking about are sort of surface issues - politeness, behaviour etc - and can absolutely be discouraged and a child taught better strategies. If they couldn't why do we bother. Most children, for example, go through a phase of hitting. The trick is getting on top of it early and stopping it from becoming an entrenched behaviour.

I have 2 with ADHD. My 12 year old is lovely except mid panic attack (he has anxiety) or when he's totally overwhelmed (he gets very cross with himself and its quite draining).

My 9 year old is lovely as long as you don't try to get him to do anything he doesn't want to do 🤦‍♀️ (homework, reading, trying new food, stopping when screen time is up...).

My 12 year old could be AWFUL until he was about 10. He was diagnosed aged 9. He wasn't particularly violent but was so very angry and difficult. I used to really pick my battles (e.g. let him sleep on our floor cos he refused his room) but even so it was hard.

After diagnosis I read a lot about ADHD and dyspraxia and realised that the poor kid had SO many negative interactions all day long. From us complaining he couldn't do his laces up or use cutlery, to telling him off for getting angry and having meltdowns etc etc. Or complaining about how long it took for him to do his homework or any number of things really. (I feel horrible looking back).

So we stepped right back. Went back to velcro shoes/elastic laces. Bought special cutlery and cut his meat up with no comment. Sat and held him when he yelled instead of dragging him to his bedroom for time out. Realised that it didn't matter if he recited his poem whilst rolling on the floor instead of standing straight like he would in school.

We were consistent since birth on manners and not hurting others. But the rest of our lives we have adapted to them a lot, e.g. giving them loads of exercise outdoors. Taking them to sports clubs and also doing sports as a family at the weekend, every weekend.

I do feel like I give in a lot, but I can see that they need calm, non confrontational interactions as much as possible so who cares if they get an extra 5 minutes of screen 🤷‍♀️

I vividly remember DS1 coming out of holiday club (aged 10) and starting to rant and rave at me all the way home. A passer-by stared in amazement but I just ignored it all. After 20 solid minutes of being yelled at, DS1 suddenly stopped and said "sorry mummy, I don't know why I'm being so horrible to you". A bit of probing and it turned out his 'friend' had been bullying him all day. I am SO glad I just took a step back and let him yell at me rather than punishing him straight away. We hugged and I told him it didn't matter and we worked out a plan for how he would cope the next day.

Unfortunately its largely personality.
Basically stubbornness. Some kids yes are maleable others come out and respond negatively to being controlled or told no.
Imo its largely genetic and our dc is from difficult GP and Aunts.
I have 2 and both ND but one is resentful depressed and anxious. Will not bend to any group or fit in.
Other can be very difficult at home but at school or round friends tries to fit in to an extent. But dc2 cries when angry and upset like me. Dc 1 takes it externally and upsets others around.

Mine are lovely, but actually that's largely just their nature. They like clear rules and are upset by conflict. They have always tended to be "well behaved" and polite (although often hard to parent in other ways!).

Yes, nurture plays a part as well. But please don't be too hard on yourself, OP. You sound like an excellent parent and your hard work and empathy will pay big dividends for your son. But don't be looking at the "lovely" teenagers with ASD etc and thinking that if yours doesn't turn out like that then it's your fault. Nature is a thing too.

I would also say that being a "lovely" ASD teen can have its disadvantages. As they get to be an adult, they need the ability to stand up for themselves, to say no to people, to make decisions which take into account their own preferences and rights, and not just cave in for a quiet life and have people walk all over them. These are life skills too.

I would also say time... ND children take much longer to develop social skills.. I look at mine now and could NEVER have imagined where we have got to when in the midst of the very very difficult times, and when ever you look around their peers are so far ahead that you feel you are stuck in this extended toddler period for ever... at 12 we still have times when his reactions and responses are more typical of pre school but we also have times where there are clear signs of development although very delayed... when behaviour techniques I thought totally beyond him suddenly seem to click... the next challenge is always round the corner but sometimes looking back to see where you have come from is good as looking sideways and forwards can be scary...

I would also say that being a "lovely" ASD teen can have its disadvantages. As they get to be an adult, they need the ability to stand up for themselves,

@TuktukGoose I would say my "lovely" ASD young man is in no way submissive, aquiescent, or accomodating. He knows exactly who he is and he values himself. He stands up for himself where necessary and is assertive and confident.

He also has learnt social mores, how to interact, how to observe the social niceties and to engage with other people.

It's essential to make sure your ASD child doesn't think s/he needs 'fixing' or conform to a NT world. Knowing they are valued and loved as they are, that there are rules tricky to understand but doing so makes things easier sometimes, and supporting them through that is just good parenting.

@KatBurglar Honestly, nothing I said was intended to be about your son. I'm sure he is assertive and confident and has all sorts of excellent qualities and skills, and that is great.

However, as I said, I have "lovely" ASD teenagers myself, and I notice they both need a lot of help learning to be assertive. The same qualities that make them naturally inclined to be gentle and polite do tend to stop them from putting themselves forward and standing up for themselves. So it's a mixed blessing, at least in our case. I guess what I was trying to say to OP is: it makes life easier to have a naturally obedient child, but in the long term nobody wants to raise an obedient adult.

My DS is about to turn 18, and he's very lovely. There are lots of factors, and I think the fact that you care enough to post this bodes well.

One thing I have always been really, really passionate about is reading together at bedtime. I have found that it has been easier to have discussions about empathy, friendships, other people's viewpoints etc through fiction. It was also half an hour in which we could just be - no nagging, no anxiety, just calm reading. I read him a chapter of something at bedtime until he was 13. Now, we quite often watch something together in the evening.

I would not change my son for the world, but I would love the world to change for him. I do have high hopes that this generation will be more ASD friendly.

For us it's personality and we used magic 123. I have always followed through on threats. We always showed love and respect too.

Please read or listen to the audible

How not to murder your adhd kid

I wish I had this when ds12 was little- but it's been amazing and he is asd & adhd

Mine are adults now.

They are not sweet nor would I want them to be.

I'm not sweet either.

I did focus heavily on polite - my mother was in the diplomatic service and anything you can say you can say politely.

I used to teach them very explicitly about translating between what we think and what we say and how using "polite" is more likely to get us what we want.

This has proved very useful for my daughter who also uses a wheelchair and has to fight her uni department for reasonable adjustments. She does so very politely. She is not however sweet nor do the teachers who don't want to make reasonable adjustments think she is pleasant to be around. She is however making them stick to the law.

Sweet lovely people who are a pleasure to be around get trampled in life. I don't want my kids to be those people.

@TuktukGoose - understood! I apologise.

My son has always been ‘stroppy’ and non-conforming. He got a lot of hassle for not being like other “normal” children and he retained his sense of self - “why would I want to pretend to be someone I’m not?”

This caused a lot of problems in school but he preferred to battle them than acquiesce.

I love his resilience and that he values who he is without conforming.

I am his biggest fan and I love that he values who he is.

Thank you all, this is such an excellent thread with a lot of interesting viewpoints.

I disagree that sweet and lovely and pleasant to be around is not something I should wish for my child, though being a walkover isn’t what I mean.

I want a pleasant family life and for us all to love each other, get along (mostly) and kids to be (mostly) nice - that means building the frustration tolerance of the troublesome one up in the best way possible.

I don’t want: escalating violence, screaming meltdowns, defiance so purposely provocative we lose our tempers and end up screaming and slapping ourselves. 🙃 my upbringing was full of screaming and slapping and it did me no favours - I start panicking when it feels like that.

Adding the ADHD book to my audible now.

DS is 20 ASD and ADHD- he is lovely 90% of the time, he was easier when he was younger but he had bigger struggles, Uni is a new level of difficulty - he doesn't cope well with study stress. I paid for ADHD assessment - he got some drugs, they helped put him in the driver's seat and that helped a lot. I love him so much but his behaviour is very frustrating and upsetting - we talk a lot when he's in a calm place and that helps - he thought everyone felt the same. If you met him - you'd think he was angel, he's so charming and he's great with people but that 10% that he saves for us is bruising we're getting better at figuring out his triggers and that helps.

I have a young teen and he’s so kind, sweet and gentle. But I now worry he’s vulnerable to other’s who will take advantage.

He still can have meltdowns so that intense reaction doesn’t just disappear, but he doesn’t harm others or himself (he used to do both but mostly head banging, very distressing). I was very consistent on any harm, including to himself that this was not OK. I saved any firmness for this and let just about everything else go.

If he didn’t want his teeth brushed? Gentle, building up, very carefully, using sensory ok toothbrushes etc.

He hated being out? I again did a super softly approach.

Disliked eating at the table? He could eat wherever he wants. Etc etc etc about a million things.

But hit others or himself? That was a clear ‘No’. But not with hard consequences or anything. Just so that he could hear and see that this was a “NO’. And then I worked VERY hard to work out his triggers for hitting. This is really key. Can’t overstate this. Because believe me there is always a trigger at first. Later it maybe can get habitual. But the initial hitting even if it was of himself, was because of stress. So I took away the stress.