If you have a lovely older child/teen with asd/adhd

[pandarific]

What parenting approaches do you think helped you raise them to be lovely? By lovely I mean: sweet, polite, pleasant to be around.

I am struggling a bit with my 5 yo DS who is very capable however is being defiant, showing aggression and doing a lot of demanding things without asking nicely ‘get me this’ ‘I want that’ as well as teasing his little sister - fairly age typical bad behaviour I know but it can be extreme and trying to contain bad behaviour when out etc is exhausting.

he is in a great school which is very asd friendly and we have the forms for a referral. ND is in the family and I am too most likely. teacher is fond of him, he is popular etc so I’m not too worried about the school element.

I just want to know I’m doing the right thing in general when parenting him, which is: validating his upset, allowing him space to calm down, coming down like a ton of bricks on any violence, making him repeat requests for things politely, etc etc.

I’ve ordered a course from Dr Becky for deeply feeling kids with a will of iron which looks good, I’m working on not losing my cool when he’s eg refusing to do something he needs to do (put on school clothes) and just holding the boundary - ie hits in the park he gets removed from the park until he can show he can behave well.

Any insight on what you did to help your child grow up well would be really appreciated, feeling fragile right now as I’m unwell and had a difficult weekend.

Thanks. I will somehow work out how we can pay for private OT and diagnosis and continue on the Nemechek protocol but I don’t think I have the time and energy for all the courses. I am pretty tired and burnt out after working full time by the weekend and I just want to unwind while the kids play, do the shop, take them to the beach, listen to a podcast etc. normal life stuff, you know.

we are also renovating so there’s always jobs to do, and we have young kids, so I am tired. I can’t add more stuff to my plate right now, but I may come back to them at some point.

@NotLactoseFree can I ask about the school issue you mentioned, and reasonable expectations?

I struggle to advocate for DS here. His teacher is nice and he doesn’t get hugely in trouble for doing things related to his ADHD/DCD (mainly getting out of his seat when he shouldn’t, and also taking an age to do what he’s asked) but the behaviour still seems to be viewed by the teacher as separate to his ADHD, i.e. just things he shouldn’t be doing. I do drum into him at home that he must put his hand up and ask if he wants to get up, but there’s not much else I can do to help this. Last year, his teacher was much more on the ball with movement breaks, and his wandering about did decrease hugely. That hasn’t happened this year unfortunately.

Hi @freespirit333 I'm a teacher. Apologies for jumping on your thresd OP. What age is your son? Does he have an EHCP that specifies the movement breaks? You could ask the SENCO when the teachers last had training on how to handle ADHD in the classroom. Sending kids on little missions to the office can be a nice break. And some strategic ignoring of minor behaviours.

Sadly the answer to the question might be never. I've been teaching 13 years and we get barely any training on SEN. What I've learnt from parenting my child is often helpful to me in the classroom though.

@freespirit333 I assume that he's in primary if he only has one teacher? Are you engaging with the SENCO at all?

When you received your diagnosis you would have received a report and some recommendations too? If the teacher is not supporting him, I'd say you need to arrange a meeting with the teacher and possibly also the SENCO and take in the report/recommendations. things like movement breaks need to be built in.

Unfortunately it is true that a lot of teachers just don't seem to understand. We had one of DS' teachers tell us recently that she didn't know a lot about meds so she asked her mum (???) who said that it can "zombify" the children. I mean, WTAF. I resisted the urge to go ballistic on her and actually, after a good conversation things have improved in her class significantly.

At DS' high school, we engage with the SENCO a lot and there's conversations aroudn things like him being allowed to use a keyboard rather than having to write everything, which will, hopefully, be continued into exams at GCSE level. At gCSE we'll also be talking to them about extra time (although that's less of a need for DS and so as it's not automatic, there's a good chance he WON'T get it) and, most likely, DS being allowed to do the exams in smaller rooms (this is one I'll be pushing for). His primary school had discretion on this and he was allowed to do his SATS in small rooms and it was life changing - he actually passed which frankly, none of us expected at that point.

My tip is you have to play the game. So you have to advocate, you have to be on it all the time, but you also have to be slightly sucky-up and just let a lot of the shit roll past you (eg the ridiculous "zombie" comment).

Thank you @Phineyj and @NotLactoseFree . Yes he is in primary, age 8, Year 3. His Y2 teacher did lots of errands to the office!

Yes very engaged with the SENCO. His teacher is nice and kind, but I don’t think buys into it. I’m sure she does ignore some stuff, and he never gets hugely told off. But I don’t feel there’s much put in place. The SENCO suggested a box of fidgets but that was shut down as DS would be back and forth to the box during lessons (I tend to agree).

No EHCP, we are in Wales so it’s a bit different in that we have IDPs instead, but DS isn’t deemed to qualify to need one.

No report when he got his diagnosis either, it was an absolute joke the way he got it (NHS), but that’s another thread.

DS’ teacher is also sadly against medication @NotLactoseFree , she made a passing comment at our last meeting and I didn’t react but it really bothered me. In her view DS copes very well, so she probably thinks he doesn’t need any.

Is he medicated though? She doesn't get a say. I'd actually be considering an informal word with the SENCO if he is medicated and she has made negative comments. At high school, it's annoying, but we can discuss with DS that some people just don't get it. At year 3, that's different and if she is making him feel othered, even by mistake, that's a huge issue.

As you got zero support from your diagnosis - which is very poor - it's worth looking into some resources you can share with the school. Depending on the type of ADHD he has, and his particular symptoms, see what you can find online and perhaps take that in for your next conversation with them.

I'm also concerned about the flat shut down of the dfidget toy box. Sure, you don't want him up and down all day. But there are options. Give him ONE fidget toy that is small enough to keep in his pocket. Put his seat next to the box of fidget toys. Make an arrangement that before each new task/lesson, part of DS' routine is to go to the box and swap his toy. Whatever works in that classroom.

Other things that most teachers find relatively easy to implement that his current teacher should be doing include, most importantly, bringing his attention back to the lesson/room. Some teachers do this better than others. Some use humour/gentle teasing which works for DS. Others just call his name and look directly at him to get him moving with the task.

At this age, sequencing can be a big challenge for children with ADHD so what is in place in the classroom to help with that? At DS school they used two key techniques. The first was to provide written/visual instructions - eg the teacher would write a list for his table which they could refer to that had all the steps written down, or if they had to do a sequencing task with, for example, arts and crafts, at each step, a picture of what was required would be provided. The second thing was that the teacher or teaching assistant, once they'd got the whole class moving, would return to DS' table and get the children there moving, offering a reminder of the steps (he wasn't the only child with similar challenges so they sat together so the teacher could give them extra support as needed).

Like most children, ADHD children respond better to praise but I think I saw something the other day (possibly on this thread) that most ADHD children hear negative comments/admonishments at much higher level than other children. So this is something the teacher has to really think about. A great way that some of DS' teachers managed this in primary school was to identify things he WAS good at, and proactively look for opportunities for him to be praised for this. DS is remarkably resilient and very determined for example, so his teachers would often use this as a way to support him, "well done DS - this is a difficult task for you but I'm very impressed at how you keep trying and get better every time." He's also quite good at performance so they'd encourage him to do that when opportunities arose.

I would strongly recommend that you arrange a conversation with the teacher, go in armed with ideas and official guidance, and see if you can make it work a bit better that way.

DD's teacher did "blurt dessert". Manage not to interrupt 5 times and she got a digestive. Worked v well.

I considered doing the same with Monopoly money with a year 12 student once (a tenner per question & when they're gone they're gone). She's a successful lawyer now.

It doesn't have to be complicated.

A bit of blutak works for a fidget.

I say this with respect for the teaching profession (as I said, I am one), but it's worth bearing in mind that UK teachers tend to be extremely young by international standards and not particularly trained or experienced. They certainly aren't going to have an informed opinion on ADHD meds. Why would they? I entered teaching in my late 30s and being a parent and having some life experience has been so so helpful.

Best to assume no-one is acting with malice but out of lack of knowledge and experience.

I mean, actual professionals in SEN will quite frequently misinform you to your face ("you can't get an EHCP for a child who's academically on track") so it is a bit of a minefield.

At this stage of the academic year it may be worth putting effort into finding out who next year's teacher will be and making plans for that. Plus (Wales poster) making sure you are up to date on the official Welsh advice on helping SEN kids in the classroom.

Thank you for the advice @Phineyj and @NotLactoseFree . Unfortunately DS’ school isn’t well known for being nurturing and supportive to SEN, despite it being very high performing. The teachers are, what I would describe, as old school. Some better than others.

In Wales as far as I understand, the school has to deem the child as needing additional intervention in order for them to qualify to have an IDP. DS’ teachers have been clear that any adjustments they have been making do not qualify as over and above what should be expected. These were the adjustments from the last two year’s, regular movement breaks, seating in the classroom. The amount of times I’ve asked them to try just a wobble cushion but it never seems to come to anything. His current teacher doesn’t see the need, I don’t think, she thinks his biggest problem is not doing what he’s asked and frustration control, which I don’t think she can connect to the fact that if he had more movement breaks (for example), it could help! His work is fine (although I think he’s underperforming).

I don’t think, she thinks his biggest problem is not doing what he’s asked and frustration control, which I don’t think she can connect to the fact that if he had more movement breaks (for example), it could help!

It might have been another thread but I recently wrote on here what our doctor said to me about similar with DS. I wear glasses, which he could see, and he said, "Do you think that if you just tried a bit harder, you'd be able to see? Is it your fault that you can't see without your glasses? Would you ever think that you don't need glasses, you just need to try harder to see" or something to that effect.

That's the point. He keeps banging on at me and DS about understanding the difference between impulse control - which is an ADHD thing and, hopefully, will be controlled with meds, and poor behaviour.

Sounds like you need ot keep banging that drum to the teachers.

Some of the high performing schools are deliberately unsupportive of SEN because they don’t want those students there (despite the fact than students can have SEN and still be academically capable). It’s an open secret in the academy trusts local to me - in fact, not a secret at all in some cases, as the schools are blatantly suggesting to parents that they take their DC off roll.