If you have a lovely older child/teen with asd/adhd

[pandarific]

What parenting approaches do you think helped you raise them to be lovely? By lovely I mean: sweet, polite, pleasant to be around.

I am struggling a bit with my 5 yo DS who is very capable however is being defiant, showing aggression and doing a lot of demanding things without asking nicely ‘get me this’ ‘I want that’ as well as teasing his little sister - fairly age typical bad behaviour I know but it can be extreme and trying to contain bad behaviour when out etc is exhausting.

he is in a great school which is very asd friendly and we have the forms for a referral. ND is in the family and I am too most likely. teacher is fond of him, he is popular etc so I’m not too worried about the school element.

I just want to know I’m doing the right thing in general when parenting him, which is: validating his upset, allowing him space to calm down, coming down like a ton of bricks on any violence, making him repeat requests for things politely, etc etc.

I’ve ordered a course from Dr Becky for deeply feeling kids with a will of iron which looks good, I’m working on not losing my cool when he’s eg refusing to do something he needs to do (put on school clothes) and just holding the boundary - ie hits in the park he gets removed from the park until he can show he can behave well.

Any insight on what you did to help your child grow up well would be really appreciated, feeling fragile right now as I’m unwell and had a difficult weekend.

I'm sorry OP, it sounds like a hard few days.

Just adding a note at the top. I've crammed MASSES into this post and it's far too much to do all at once - which is not what I mean for you to take on - it's basically stuff I've learned over 13+ years. Pick one or two things, or print it and cut it up and put it into envelopes with different months on to look at over time, or buy one of the books and read it with DH and try different things from it over a few weeks/months.

I do think these days around Christmas/NYE are particularly difficult with ND in the mix. DS2 (also 5 and probably ND) has been totally nuts the past week or so. Bouncing off the walls, melting down over little things. The last couple of days, DH took him out for a really long walk on one day to the next village and back, and yesterday we drove to a new park and they played there for about 90 mins - this has helped enormously and (fingers crossed?) this has hugely helped and he seems back to baseline. I'm sure we're about to wreck this tonight because we always get loads of fireworks where we live at midnight on NYE.

I think maybe it would help to separate out the issues in your post. It sounds like everything just collided to make an explosion.

So first you said you hadn't been out (at all) the previous day, this is generally a recipe for disaster in our house. The children NEED walks (like dogs). Even just a 20 min walk around the block helps release pressure. If we have had a lazy day at home, which we do sometimes, we have to make up for it the next day if we don't want to all end up screaming at each other. The more days with no exercise, the worse it gets. Christmas/winter is general is a bit of a pain for this also because they build up so much energy from all the presents and excitement overload and we (adults) don't really want to leave the house anyway. If you've had family visiting or visited family then you can multiply this again.

Secondly - I probably would not have attempted to go into town on one of those days. Town for me is a "good day" activity. It's boring for DC. They have to listen to a lot of different instructions. Be careful of the road, stay close, hold hands, don't touch that, wait, be quiet, no running. No we are not buying sweets/toys. They have to wait around while you do your thing which is hard. There is a saying which I find really helpful which is "Try hard things at easy times". So while, yes, DC do need to learn to accommodate others and come along to things which are not their favourite, it probably wouldn't have been something I would have attempted on a day that I know their energy reserves and ability to tolerate discomfort is already pretty low.

The other day we had to take both small DC to the supermarket. 5yo was creating on the floor whining that he did not want to go. We were saying unfortunately we have to go anyway (etc) - I wrote a shopping list and because we knew it would be difficult for him we basically planned for it to be a quick trip in and out. I can't remember exactly what the sequence of events was but he basically said can we go to <this specific supermarket> and I said yes, OK - because that way, we had some buy in from him and that helped him to be cooperative, and ultimately for us it didn't matter what supermarket it was, as long as we could buy food. What I might have done if this hadn't been suggested would have been bribery basically - I might have started talking about some aspect of the supermarket which I knew would be appealing to him such as suggesting that we buy some sweets, ice cream or have a look at the toy section or suggest that we look for his Elsa shampoo or that he can choose what he wants to eat for lunch (it doesn't always have to be some overtly "treat" type thing, but I might break that out on a really hard day)

If I was going to separate out two more parts of your post I'd say:

DS is not your sister. I totally get looking ahead and seeing that scenario playing out again but it seems like you're seeing two possibilities: Give in and let him "dictate" or lock horns and fight. I think there are myriad approaches in the middle.

The locking horns and fighting approach: I will out-stubborn you. Again I can see why you would try it - but it does not seem to be working for any of you, and I think honestly it will ramp up his distress and make things worse.

Middle ways would be:

• Trying hard things at easy times.
• Breaking down expectations into chunkable steps - coming into town (busy, people, music, lights, smells, boring, instructions), which he doesn't want to, on a day that he's dysregulated and hasn't had exercise the previous day, when he feels forced, and you're dysregulated - this is SO much - you want to work on each of these goals separately and in small steps. There's a great phrase called the "growth zone" - basically everyone has a comfort zone, where they feel totally comfortable and safe and don't have to do anything hard - letting DS stay in his comfort zone would be tiptoeing around and doing everything the way he wants all the time. But you try to drag him too far away from his comfort zone and he'll be in the "danger zone" where he's going into fight or flight, running away, hitting you, shouting, lying on the floor, refusing to do things etc. The growth zone is small and it exists between these two. You don't get growth by forcing it, you have to nurture it. So for example attempting the supermarket on a really good day with lots of supports, when it's a trip that he wants, to attempting the supermarket on a good day where there are things he wants but also things other people need, to a trip where there are lots of supports but the trip is not centred on him, reducing supports over time.
• Setting yourselves up to succeed - try to "top him up" with lots of regulating sensory input. Get his buy in for things (approach with an aspect that he will be interested in). If he struggles with sensory input, whether overtly or just more of a pattern you've observed, then you could explore things like ear defenders and/or sunglasses for the supermarket. Let him sit in the main part of the trolley, and watch videos on a phone with headphones (and ignore any judgy looks - who cares, if it gets you a safe trip out). Give him a job within the supermarket such as reading the shopping list, carrying a basket or a child's trolley, finding specific items, doing simple maths sums etc (I just read yesterday that when they are heading into meltdown territory, some kind of cognitive task, such as reading, guessing, searching, or numbers can help to "bring them back" into the logical part of their brain).
• Empathise when he doesn't want to do something (even if you have to do it anyway). Seeing his point of view (REALLY seeing it) goes a long way.
• Problem solving - seeing if you can get aspects of your concerns and his concerns and work out a win-win solution. For example, you needed to go out, but he didn't want to go to town. Was there anywhere he did want to go, would that have worked for you?
• Separate your concerns/agenda from his. I think your DH is right - if your immediate and urgent need was to get out of the house, then you could have prioritised that and gone with DD, putting that over the need to get DS to be more flexible on that occasion. (Not forever). It's true that you won't get flexibility by accommodating inflexibility all the time, but you also can't force it as that will just cause him to tense up and push back. It makes sense to put your own oxygen mask on first and see to your own needs separately from trying to help DS cope with situations where he has to do things he doesn't want to.
• Positive reinforcement - apparently the ideal ratio of praise to correction is 4:1. Children with ADHD or ASD frequently have this ratio the other way around - they receive something like 10x more corrections than praise. It's really shocking and probably contributes to dysregulation as well as leading to scenarios where they're basically ignoring being told off/punished because it happens to them so often they just accept it as an immutable fact of life, also cementing an image "I'm a bad boy" which they then lean into. There are some really really good methods to increase the amount of praise you're giving which will help flip this ratio to something where it's actually constructive.
• Pinpoint a small number of current problem behaviours and flip them into positive expectations e.g. "Not hitting sister" could be "Play nicely with sister". Break this down into what it actually looks like in terms of actions e.g. "When you want a toy from sister, offer her another toy". or "Using nice tone of voice when asking for things" Write these down. Keep it to a small number. Because they are written down you can look for them and when you see it, you can praise, when you might normally not register it at all. If you realise it is actually unrealistic, change it e.g. "Ask adult for help when you want toy from sister".
• Consider a points/reward chart/marble jar system where you can reinforce praise with a small reward.
• Stick up smiley face emojis around the house. When you see one, use it as a cue to say something positive (if there is nothing positive to say, say "I love you")
• Try to "catch" him being good even if it is the smallest thing like having got dressed or eaten without making a mess.
• Every time you notice yourself telling off/correcting, look for 3-4 reasons to praise over the next few minutes to help balance.
• Praise for behaviour which is 25% correct. This is more motivating than waiting for 75%+ which might never happen otherwise.
• Look at positive parenting resources - Triple P course may be available in your area, 123 Magic has some of this, ABCs of Everyday Parenting on Coursera (free) - bear in mind that some of the tools offered in these courses can be ineffective if the child CANNOT do the desired behaviour. (Which might be the case even if they can do it sometimes). These tend to have really good guidance on how to give effusive, specific, tactile praise (which is more effective than "Good boy!")
• If your child struggles with effusive, direct, tactile praise try just noticing without appraising "I noticed that when you wanted that toy, you offered sister a different car." (NOT that was good, or well done, or good boy).
• Praise for individual parts e.g. if you want to stop a behaviour where he wants a toy so he screams and hits and snatches, break this down into "not screaming" "calm voice" "using please" "not name calling" "waiting to be offered toy" "not hitting" "asking adult for help" "offering sister alternative toy" - and though it will feel counterproductive, if he does any of these e.g. he shouts PLEASE GIVE ME THE TOY - praise for using please, even though he shouted. Or if he does not shout but has a calmer voice, even if he bluntly demands "Give me that now." Praise for not shouting. When you do this technique it will feel really tempting to add a critique about what he got wrong, but try to avoid this as it cancels out the effects of the praise.

There is this FANTASTIC book called When Your Kids Push Your Buttons which would probably be useful to read. It's not diagnosis specific but it really does help you figure out where some of these feelings are coming from and it helps with approaches which are likely to be less bull-locking-horns.

The Explosive Child by Ross Greene is also really good. Each of these have approaches for combining the child's agenda, needs or concerns and the parent or other family member's agenda, needs or concerns.

Also I would recommend following "The OT Butterfly" on instagram and The Occuplaytional Therapist on Facebook (and look at both their websites) as they both have really really fantastic accessible info about sensory regulation and dysregulation and how to handle children who struggle with demands.

Lastly - have you ever spoken to your parents about the way your DSis was as a child and the way you struggle with DS? I wonder if this would be a helpful conversation to have. I wonder if perhaps they also tried the locking horns approach and found it unhelpful, and this is why they went with the let her be approach - which might be useful information for you, to help put in context things that might have happened as a child which didn't make sense to you at the time, it's possible there was more going on behind the scenes that you weren't aware of. You could approach this as being worried about the effect on your DD. How is your DSis now as an adult?

Thank you all so, SO MUCH. Really. This is the most helpful thread. And you’re so right! I feel a lot more positive reading these.

@BertieBotts I’m afraid I’m NC with my sister as is the rest of my extended family bar my mum and occasionally my dad. She has no empathy, is always right, incredibly self centred, abusive, can’t cope with life/doesn’t work and is just a manipulative/nasty person. Recently had police involvement for harassing my cousin over Facebook.

Completely disagree I'm afraid.
This is along the same lines as boys will be boys which I also disagree with.
OP firstly you are doing loads of good things. With my 18 year old who has ASD, consistent rules and where possible ignoring the bad (apart from violence) and praising the good worked best. Lots of space to calm down. I didn't always handle it well for which I will also feel guilty.
Anyway at 18 he is in the main absolutely lovely. Funny, bouncy, polite, lots of friends (mainly ND as well), helpful. He still has his moments and kicks off but is almost never violent (occasionally to his siblings but they are annoying and it's equal!) . I was very worried at 5 as he was such hard work and very aggressive, socially difficult and quite wild.

(I’m also horrifically traumatised by my 80s/90s upbringing as undiagnosed myself and also from my family breaking up when I was a teen partly due to how badly my sisters behaviour escalated then. Did some therapy will do some EMDR when I have money but that time is not now. 🙃)

Sorry to hear that, that must be really hard. I can totally see how you would not want to recreate your parents' handling of things, I would defo recommend the Buttons book in this case, as I used to say it's like therapy in a book!

It might be that when you're seeing parenting approaches as being giving in vs locking horns/winning then you are so worried about the potential effects of the "giving in" approach that you're almost scared to use anything which feels any way like that, but I do think that it is basically an extreme approach which people go to out of necessity, because they do not have any tools and they are thinking in the short term. Your parents did not have the internet, they probably didn't have any info about ASD aside from the very basic stuff they were told from the diagnosis, the literature was not very good. The resources now are not exactly abundant, they contradict each other and you do have to seek them out and experiment a bit but I fully believe that you can get away from the idea of parenting as being a zero sum battle with your child that either they win and you lose, or you win and they lose. You can be on his side and push him and support him in a way that helps him grow at a pace which is tolerable for him and also constructive. Some of the constructive approaches will also advocate for a short term period of low-demand/no-demand in order to rebuild trust and relationship or allow for a period of observation. I do think some online spaces seem to confuse this with a low-demand or no-demand approach being helpful full stop, which I am not sure is right for many people. (Maybe it does work for some.) You basically have to find your own comfort level. But trying not to see things as "If I'm not imposing my will on DS then he's imposing his will on us and I can't let him do that" because IME it's not that black and white, and there is an aspect of needing to start on his terms in order to gain his trust, so if you're very very attached to the "DS needs to do as we say" then you're going to butt heads a lot.

If you want to do EMDR in the future but can't access right now, I have heard something about Tetris being basically the same eye movements and having some of the same effect - I'm sure it's not as good as having actual treatment with a professional, but it can't hurt - maybe it would be something you can try at home e.g. play free online tetris while talking over options with DH, or debriefing how a bad day went, or listening to an audiobook or podcast or youtube/course video - and antidepressants should also help, there is no shame in this. I take ADHD medication and it definitely makes me a better parent.

Mine is 13 and has ASD, ADHD and learning difficulties. He has been on ADHD medication for about 18 months and that has made a huge difference. It has regulated him and it is like the real him has come out. He is extremely kind, empathetic, loves animals and very gentle.

However at the age of around 5 it was a nightmare. His meltdowns were very seriously epic and destructive and he was exceptionally violent. Only towards me as his safe person but I had the occasional night where I had to lock myself into my room for my safety. He was also non-verbal at this age which exacerbated his frustration.

What we did over the years;

• read everything we could get our hands on. The Explosive Child was a good one.
• Really focused on him... we have become really adept at knowing his trigger points and heading them off at the pass. This has become quite instinctive
• We have calm firm boundaries.
• Occasional counselling as we have gone along
• Play therapy for a few years with a woman who became very trusted and worked with him one to one.

I think it all adds up really. Of course we did not get it right all the time. One thing was when he was about 10 things were going off the rails big time. It was slightly more complicated than what was going on with him, but I ended up taking time off work because the kid was so volatile and not able to get through the school day - or even any days very much and I was terrified he was going to harm himself. His school have been amazing and adaptable.

However, everything builds up and he is now (despite puberty hitting) very calm, very rational, very sweet and loving. He is protective of his younger (NT) brother and is also very protective of other kids being bullied. he takes them under his wing. He is currently a delight and I am proud of the values and integrity he is showing.

However- it's been quite a ride. And I recall often something - the best piece of parenting advice I ever heard - 'If things are going either badly or well... remember... it's just a phase'.

Best of luck.

And I have just read @BertieBotts exceptionally helpful and wise posts and cannot replicate!

However- we gradually try and expand DS's boundaries and comfort zones but we know he has limits. For example (and this is recent so in my mind) -He can't sit through a pantomime for example. But this year we got to the interval. A few years ago we got as far as entering the door and standing in the foyer. Then the next year got as far as sitting down. Then got as far as the first song etc. Over the years we have learned to just not put any pressure on anything. I'll plan an event in the full knowledge that we might not make it, or we might have to leave early. Anything is a bonus. Things are getting incrementally better. So when he was 5 there was no way I could have gone to Aldi with him. Now he can handle it without any issues. We had the most awful experience at someone's birthday party where I knew it was going to be a tough ask for him but felt we had to do it. The metldown was epic and sadly damaged his friendship big time with the birthday boy. That was my fault because I should have had the confidence to say to the parents; 'He will not be able to cope for more than half an hour'.

I have learned that you feel all these repeated micro-griefs at what your kid cannot do, when compared with other kids. But it's important to try and block that off in your mind and focus on what they can do and what you can work on. Now DS could probably stay at a birthday party for a full 2 hours. If he was prepared for it, and was very rested beforehand with little pressure.

It seems to me that part of the problem is that you aren't really sure which bits of his behaviour are just him being a twat and which are related to any possible ND.

The reality is that while his behaviour sounds very twattish, it does ALSO sound like he is genuinely struggling with behaviour and things he finds difficult. I think that at the age of 5, allowing some leeway is not a bad thing while you're seeking diagnosis and support.

And if it is related to his ND, then yes, you will have to figure out ways to accommodate and manage it while also trying to help him to better self regulate.

One thing I find with the ND children I know like this is that it can be very difficult because they aren't seeing the world in the same wy the rest of us are. A friend's DD will make these absolutely outrageous statements that, quite honestly, make her very difficult to like. But I know it's because she is seeing the world differently. This is something that has to be handled carefully.

I remember those days with my DC who has very obvious ASD.
When they don’t want to go out of the house, it’s a need not a want. It may feel like they are kicking off to get their way, as in manipulate you, but it isn’t that at all. Many children with ASD instinctively know their tolerance levels for going to places like into town or into school - places that are very stressful and painful sensory wise to someone with ASD. When he says he doesn’t want to go out, you should respect that this is coming from a need to not be exposed to an environment that will lead to a meltdown. A meltdown isn’t a tantrum, it’s not a choice, it is what happens when a person has hit sensory overload. It isn’t pleasant to experience and so naturally, even a 5yr old will be aware of their tolerance level and want to avoid a meltdown.

The trampoline was likely how he was barely coping after being forced into town on a day he knew he couldn’t cope. Unfortunately, pulling him off the trampoline kicked out his last support and he had a meltdown.

It would be better to respect his needs and not force him to go out when he knows he cannot handle it. Or at the very least say, hey if it gets to much I will bring you home right away just let me know. My DC would hold my hand and squeeze it several times in a row as a signal when being out was getting to be too much and they needed to go home. I always kept this promise to them and surprisingly it meant far fewer trollies of food abandoned in Tescos and also they were able to build their tolerance up more gradually, at their own pace. Them knowing they can trust you to take them home at the drop of a hat when they do a signal, it increases their confidence.

I'm sorry about your sister and how she affected you. The understanding we have of autism now we probably didn't have didn't have when your sister was young.

How do we handle this? I said to DH earlier that maybe when I need to get out I just take DD and leave him, but isn’t that pandering and teaching him he can control us with bad behaviour?

This is complicated. If your DS had gone on to have a great time in town then I'd have said OK, fight past the initial tantrum and get him into town. But he didn't, and it was a bad day for everyone including you.

What the child psych advised me was - if DC usually copes with a situation, then keep putting him in it, so he can learn from his success. If he almost never copes then either adapt the situation so he can cope, or else don't put him in that situation.

Adapting might mean a short structured trip to town, where he knows in advance exactly where you're going in what order, and which has one or two things he enjoys built in, and he knows the plan in advance (even a couple of days in advance!) My DC freaked out in toyshops (so we never went to toyshops!) but he liked a trip to a cafe and he behaved beautifully (so long as we left as soon as he finished, so we did. After a while we could go to toyshops if he knew exactly what he was going to buy in advance; bur browsing shelves caused him distress (I still don't exactly know why, some kind of overload) And you have the additional complexity of another child whose needs you have to balance, which I didn't have to worry about. It's not going to be easy, or perfect!

When you have a child with autism, I'd say - do whatever works for your family. A happy day is better than an unhappy day. If you take DD out and leave DS at home and both children get to have a nice day and you get the break you need in town, then that's also a good outcome. flowers

And I have just read BertieBotts exceptionally helpful and wise posts and cannot replicate! Thank you, but knowing stuff is only half the battle. Actually doing it successfully is also a work in progress. I am good at summarising and remembering things but all the knowledge in the world is no good if you don't actually do it. The advice about things they are successful with vs unsuccessful with is really good I think and probably applies to parents too

What the child psych advised me was - if DC usually copes with a situation, then keep putting him in it, so he can learn from his success. If he almost never copes then either adapt the situation so he can cope, or else don't put him in that situation.

That’s so sensible - thank you. Tricky, as sometimes DS does have a grand old time and sometimes he doesn’t. He’d have been happy out going to soft play or swimming, but we needed to go to the shops and frankly both DH and I were knackered and couldn’t face it. Also the money tree is rather bare after Xmas. So, we chose a quick trip to a cafe and then something we had to do (shops) and would get the kids out of the house for a bit thinking that was a good plan, but in retrospect perhaps we’ll perhaps adapt in future if he’s being totally opposed.

The advice does have to be adapted because tolerance for social situations is variable in autistic children.

So a trip to a cafe might be ok on a weekend, but not combined with another activity- shops can be especially challenging due to sensory overload.

Or a trip to a cafe on a weekend/holiday is ok, but not after a full day at school or the day after a big family event/visit.

He is 5 so at an age where can communicate with you on whether he is feels he is up to going or not, and even if he thought he was up for an activity, he can tell you when he hits overwhelm and needs to escape home.

You will get a feel for where his boundaries are and as other parents have said be able to head things off at the pass. It then makes family life so much more enjoyable for everyone.

Being explicit with praise is helpful eg. "I see you put the train away, thankyou/I like the way you picked up your plate/great pattern you created a with Lego, I am proud/you had a gentle hand with John, I am happy. Try to gently steer away when undesired behaviour is happening and give alternative when calmer. Remove them immediately if violent, less words are helpful, just say 'stop' and remove them.

Creating a space for them where there is nothing on one wall, no primary colours, strong smells, clutter, a blanket they can go into or a little tent in dark colour or even a canopy. Help them learn how to self regulate and let them do their own thing, use a sand timer for when you want him to do something, tell them finish play then shower time.

I haven't read the full thread but wanted to comment while I had a minute.

My eldest is lovely and sweet and empathetic and gentle and intelligent and all those things. She is well behaved at home and school and at others homes etc. Mostly it's just her personality.

She has had a couple of moments of almost becoming (very softly) violent when she was younger. Totally unexpected and out of character. Those times I was extremely firm and made it clear that I have 0 tolerance for violence. I would firmly say this and walk away. I would not allow her to follow us or interact with us until she had calmed down. If that meant continuing to remove myself then so be it. Harsh because it was due to her being overwhelmed or in meltdown but it's something I couldn't tolerate and I knew that.
I am naturally gentle and so she has been used to seeing me and her dad this way and we tried to always model acceptable behaviour in terms of politeness and the way we speak to others. If she became rude or demanding , regardless of whether it was intentional or not, we ignored her. We responded to the behaviour we wanted and ignored the ones we didn't to a certain extent. Responding and getting into a back and forth would often make things worse.

She did have high anxiety and some meltdowns when younger but has become better able to tolerate situations as she has gotten older. We don't get them now. I always encouraged her to feel her feelings and name them but I made it clear through words, actions and consistency that just because she felt x does not mean you can take it out on others. If you do people will walk away even if you feel you need support. Again harsh, but she had to learn to survive and tolerate the world and unfortunately that world will not bend for her and she knew this. She had to learn to cope with being uncomfortable sometimes because that's real life. I know people do try to change environments for their dc and avoid places or situations, but that was not something we did because I was of the mindset that she would one day have to live independently and I wouldn't be there to do that. We armed her with coping strategies and we did everything that NT families did including spontaneous events and challenging situations. A friend of mine ended up feeling like she couldn't leave her home because her dc had anxiety about going out and sensory issues and I felt awful for her. We chose to expose our dc to as many experiences as possible even if that was difficult for us all sometimes.

We are lucky that she has a few interests and talents that can help her relax and switch off in hard times, that allow her to meet like minded people where she could be herself and that allows us to spend real quality time together engaging in joint interests. We did and still do make sure that we give her (and younger dc) real quality time where we are 100 percent present as much as is possible and we prioritise this. Our reason was that it gave her the time to feel heard and valued and if a need was not being met she was able to communicate this and we could come up with solutions in a less intense environment. It helped that she was a very good communicator from a young age, which again is just her personality.
We encouraged positive friendships that really helped and I did have to often interfere and manage this more than I would have liked because she did struggle to understand healthy friendships and fell victim to bullies taking advantage of her.

It does help that I am autistic so I could relate and give relevant advice. It is also why we chose the strategies we did, such as the exposure to situations. I was only diagnosed as an adult and so was treated NT as a child and although it was difficult, it has meant that I am able to cope in various situations and enjoy a full life and career involving people.
As I said I do think it is personality and don't feel we did anything special these are just my thoughts.

There's some super advice here and I'm also following along. DC is 10 now and when finally got their diagnosis the psych commented on how flexible they were, which is I think in part DH in particular being very good at knowing just how much challenge they can cope with (I'm a bit more pushy and have had to modify my behaviour a lot). We don't get it right all the time but also try and manage 'hard days' (we too had a trip into town yesterday and DC was totally zoned out by the end so today was an easy day with a long walk and a familiar film). At 5 DC could have violent outbursts/screaming fits/meltdowns but is now much better at self regulation, e.g. will just go outside to stim.

My Dbro has an older autistic teen and struggles with the is this teenage arseholery or autism? Question a lot, especially where they are trying to manipulate or control things (which teens are pro at anyway). But generally I don't think the totally zero demand approach advocated for in some online spaces as a sort of permanent approach is a good one, not least because it has hugely detrimental impacts on everyone else in the family, including siblings. I can understand how you get there though if you've had a period of burnout.

Just wanted to add that some acceptance is helpful at times. It's easy to feel desperate for things to be better and easier and settled, but accepting that it can't always be so does help. When our dc went through difficult times it was tempting to wish they would get better quickly or wish they would just suddenly regulate themselves or that something we did would suddenly be the answer to tranquility but it can't always be so. Sometimes you just have to remind yourself that this is the way it is and try not to fight against it. As much as we teach our dc to cope in uncomfortable situations, we need to learn to cope with the discomfort we feel when dc are struggling and displaying challenging emotions or behaviour. We just have to ride it out and try to support them and be kind to ourselves.
Our dc doesn't particularly seem to have a stim but I do. If I fight against my stim I feel worse and worse. My stim is not something I particularly want to do but I have to accept it as soothing and regulating. I wish I could feel less overwhelmed and organised my home and life better but accepting I can't is key and makes it less difficult to cope with.
We tend to want to fight against ND whether our own or our dcs but sometimes we have to sit with it. I'm not saying just blindly allow or except violence for example but I remember times when I'd ask myself when will dc be this or that or able to do x y z. When will it be easier etc as you have and I remember wondering why dc was doing this or that and I'd often overlook the fact that they are overstimulated or dysregulated. It's easy to look at behaviours in isolation and miss the bigger picture.
It's a true rollercoaster and it's ok to sit back and ride it a while without wanting to change it. Save your energy and you will be less burnout when you need it.

Hi @pandarific 👋

DS1 is AuDHD and just turned 11. He is lovely, and popular with adults and children.

Firstly, he is medicated in school. It’s a game changer.

Secondly, I am fairly strict about non-negotiables. No violence, poor behaviour, inconsiderate behaviour. Consequences are usually loss of screen time. Also, clear boundaries.

Thirdly, home is for chilling, demands are nearly zero. This will change a bit with homework at secondary, and helping around the house, but he spends a lot of time on his switch. I’m fine with this. He does have a musical instrument, but very casually.

Fourthly, we check in with each other a lot. I try to anticipate issues, and I back school to the hilt. I listen. Communication - amongst all stakeholders - is the most important thing.

I’m sure you’ll do a great job

PS agree with @BertieBotts re: praise to correction ratio. I ‘catch DS1 being good’ ALL the time, because stuff we consider ‘automatic’ definitely isn’t automatic for him. This really, really works. (I’m a teacher, kids behave when they feel that you like and value them).

Not sure quite how we have got through the last decade with our ASC DDs troubles, and I didn't feel there was much advice when she was a teen , but I suppose one thing we always did with her was always discuss after a meltdown / aggressive event how she felt and what was going on , how it made the other person feel etc. she's a lovely empathic late teen now , still has meltdowns but is more self aware . We also employed quite relaxed parenting , eg she only went to school 50 % of the time. I think that was the right thing. Also her older sibling tells her when things don't sound right or advise how to talk to others which is really good .

Model good behaviour
Firm and consistent boundaries
Pick your battles

We watch a lot of TV together and talk about how the characters think, feel and behave, and why. The Dumping Ground and Malory Towers have been particularly good for this, as DD, while very bright, doesn't always get social stuff and most people don't realise as she's very sociable and plays the fool to cover it up.

I think it's helped.

DS15 has asd, for the most part he is okay but he has a very short temper. Gets angry out of nowhere. He’s mostly alright with me but DP only has to look at him a certain way and he gets pissed off. Sometimes I feel like we are stepping on eggshells, dd11, is very outspoken and they rub each other the wrong way and world war 4 will break out. The problem is he’s taller than both of us, at 6,4 and is defo heavier so if he loses it neither of us have a chance of stopping him. He gets anxious very often which fuels the anger. He does have tablets which calm him down a bit. When he’s in a good mood he’s a funny, sarcastic, lovely boy.

I did Positive Parenting, which is a fairly structured kind of gentle parenting. And I was very patient and direct. If he was rude, I would get down to eye level and say in a very gentle, calm, unemotional voice: 'When you talk to me like that it sounds rude. I don't do things for people who are rude to me so I can't fetch your teddy/get you a drink right now. I do things for people who are nice and kind to me. Can you think of a nice and kind way to ask me?'

I'd always agree with how he felt but not his actions surrounding how he felt. e.g. You don't want to put shoes on now, do you? You like having bare feet. But granny is waiting for us in the playpark and you need shoes to play hide and seek with her. And she will be getting chilly waiting for us, so what can we do to get those shoes on your feet? Different socks? wellies instead?

These techniques are slow and tedious to execute but they really do bypass tantrums - DS had almost none - the only ASD person in our group who never melted down. And it does help hammer in social skills to explain why other people need to be considered.

I also gave him a cosy chair with a blanket, a book, a drink and usually a cat (DCat adored ASD/ADHD son) and he could go and snuggle in it if he ever felt overwhelmed. It really prevented meltdowns.

Food was a very long, drawn out learning curve. He was extremely resistant to new foods. I just kept offering but never forcing. I put foods from each food group in tiny bowls near him and said to be healthy he had to choose one source of protein, one of carbs, three of fresh stuff for each meal. It took YEARS. Now he's an adult and he doesn't have a more restricted diet than any neurotypical person.

I forgot to say that my ASD and ADHD son is incredible now and I am so proud of him I feel like I'm boasting when I describe him. But he went from being bottom of the class, unable (and VERY unwilling!) to write his own name aged 7 to getting a First Class Honours from a great uni, went from being bullied at primary, ignored at secondary and bullied again at uni to having great friends from uni, work, hobbies and 6th form at school.

He is funny, incredibly kind and thoughtful - more so than his NT brother! Very loving, very sociable and socially skilled.