Any Employment Lawyers or HR people around?

[Marie2023]

I could really do with some guidance, if that’s OK.

Basically I have been bullied at work by a very senior member of staff. The Board are now involved. It is clear that me and the member of staff can no longer work together so I have offered to leave.

I have been told that I will receive a ‘generous payout’. The thing is, I don’t know what I should be expecting. Given the time of year, I may be out of work for some time.

So what does a ‘generous payout’ look like, in relation to monthly salary? Any ideas please?

Thanks.

Thanks everyone, you are being very kind. I really appreciate it.

Agreed with the employment lawyers (am an in house lawyer, have seen the way it goes many a time). If not age discrimination and just "fit", they can sack you before 2 years. Anyone who is advising otherwise probably works for the public sector, where they rarely use this option IME and performance manage or move people who are not fitting until they've been employed more than 2 years and couldn't get rid of them anyway!

If they are a nice company, then they will either pay you up to 3 months to go now, or they might agree that they will keep you employed until you find an alternative role and they recruit your successor.

Always advisable to read the thread or at least the ops posts.

Very good point.

I think that’s a pretty good outcome OP. Better than it has to be, certainly. What a relief!

Remember to ask them to incorporate a reference as part of the settlement agreement.

I’d suggest looking around for seasonal work which will tide you over until you find something perm.

Hi [Marie2023],

I would like to make this very easy.

You are legally entitled to 2 weeks severance pay. I’ve asked the team to provide 4 weeks severance pay and also if you want to resign effective immediately, I will pay you out the notice pay as well. You will also be paid any outstanding leave and entitlements. Together this will take you to the end of January. I think this is a fair compromise.

Separately, you mentioned concerns about [Group Counsel’s] and [Compliance Officer’s] behaviour and I am taking that allegation very seriously. I would welcome the opportunity to have this in writing so I can formally raise this.

Alternatively you are welcome to return to work and we can work through these issues. I want to do what minimises the stress the least.

Beat regards,

[CEO]

The above sounds reasonable to me given not served 2 years as yet and he/ she is also offering return to work to sort out issues although that is for the notice period only. If accepted it is possible they will want it in a written agreement on which a separate solicitor acting for the employee will advise.

Doesn't anyone else think the text messages are totally bizarre in context? Why would they offer her to return to work for 2 whole weeks to "work through the issues" (what realistically can be "worked through" in 2 weeks) and why would employee in their right mind do that and sign away this settlement?

Can someone explain why the CEO would offer that? The text message in the screenshot just doesn't add up with what was implied in the letter.

Op are you possibly holding something back? As a pp said the messages v what you’ve said do not tie.

for example.

The ceo states “to make this as easy as possible” which indicates you’ve asked for what you’re entitled to. So he is explaining it simply to you.

he then makes an offer and says this is a “fair compromise”. For that to make sense you must already have asked for something, which he’s rejected, and he’s offering this as a compromise between what you have requested and what you’re entitled to.

he talks about the complaints as “something you mentioned and a separate matter”. And requests it in writing so he can deal with it . So this appears to be news to him and over and above the issue about why you’re leaving.

you also say you “offered to resign.” Which is odd phrasing. And it feels like the stress is rhe stress primarily of losing your job. The way the letter is written shows the stress is not related to the complaints but the fact you’re leaving and losing your job.

Generally folks are often given the opportunity to resign when they face termination, it allows them to get another job more easily. This is backed up by the text messages where you jump to “return to work, you mean you’d have me back?” and they quickly say no. It makes it feel like termination and you’ve been offered to be able to resign to help you.

they are clearly trying to treat you with kindness and be fair. They are allowing you the opportunity to work your notice if you wish, and also during that time to deal with the issues you say you face with legal and compliance officers. Rather obviously they don’t really want you working your notice, but are giving you the opportunity.

however the fact it is their lawyer and compliance officer, indicates again there is a reason these people were involved with you. Were you responsible for something that was non compliant and could have caused a legal issue?

i get why you might not wish to say on here, but if this isn’t quite how you’ve presented it, then I’d maybe thank your lucky stars, bite their hand off and get job searching.

I agree it’s a good offer and I wasn’t suggesting she reject it. But she is entitled to legal advice on the compromise agreement in any event and it makes sense for her to satisfy herself as part of that advice that the offer is fair.

As others have said if there is any element of whistleblowing she should get advice on that as it does change her legal position somewhat

My reading of what’s been posted though is that OP is likely to be the EA to the GC and CO and has had an interpersonal spat with the CO. If that’s the full extent of it, that isn’t a whistleblowing situation.

It is a very fair offer from your employer as it's more than you're legally entitled to. I would tread very carefully as you're unlikely to better this offer and you don't want them to take it off the table.

However, this is your life and is obviously stressful.... clearly you are going to be leaving this job but you want to feel you've done all that you can in the circumstances. I'd therefore ask the CEO to give you a little time to consider the offer and ask when they need a response by. I'd then call ACAS today and outline absolutely everything that's happened. Write a list of bullet points before you call them so you don't forget anything.

Ultimately though, it's a good offer and in your circumstances I'd bite their hand off. But if speaking with ACAS to confirm that feels helpful for you then you should do it.

You really do not know this for sure, she’s clearly not giving all the information and if she wants legal advice she is perfectly capable of employing a solicitor. She’s not even said it’s a formal settlement agreement. The ceos letter does not refer to a settlement agreement and if it was one, he would refer to it as it would be contingent on signing this. Never mind entitled to legal costs. Settlement agreement are your words and your words alone.

There will almost certainly be a compromise agreement for audit purposes if nothing else. The CEO can’t just give an employee money with no paper trail. I’ve never known an employee to leave a business in these circumstances without a signed compromise agreement - am not HR though.

Again no, they can make an ex gratia payment,which is exactly what this looks like. Not a compromise or settlement agreement, an ex gratia one, which will have full audit trail.

Thanks everyone. Really appreciate all your good advice. When I look at the offer, the ex gratia part amounts to 2 weeks’ pay. I don’t think that’s enough, to be honest. I also don’t think my unused leave should constitute part of the settlement.

Not being greedy, just feel I’ve been treated appallingly.

But they have no obligation to pay you even the two weeks pay. So that is more than generous. You could go back ask for more, but they are unlikely to agree.

It also doesn’t help that you’re not being completely transparent about what’s happened.

The text message from the CEO states, according to your post

"You are legally entitled to 2 weeks severance pay. I’ve asked the team to provide 4 weeks severance pay and also if you want to resign effective immediately, I will pay you out the notice pay as well. You will also be paid any outstanding leave and entitlements."

I read this as 4 weeks severance pay plus 2 weeks PILON. You are legally entitled to holiday pay for any outstanding annual leave entitlement. The PILON and the holiday pay will be subject to tax and NI. I'd be checking with the CEO that they are of the same understanding as this.

You've had loads of good advice IMO, from experienced employment lawyers and HR professionals as well as my take as an experienced trade union official. You need to put aside how you feel and take this deal, it's a good one in the context of what you've told us.

I don't really understand what you mean about your leave being part of the settlement? It's not, is it? They're pointing out that they're paying it to you on top of the amount they're offering you above your statutory minimum.

I read it that you would ordinarily be entitled to 2 weeks severance pay and whatever leave etc is outstanding. You're getting that, and in addition you're getting an extra 2 weeks, plus pay in lieu of notice (another 2 weeks?) if you resign immediately.

I think that's a really good offer. They could just say 'Here's 2 weeks pay and your remaining leave.' I understand you're unhappy with how you've been treated, and the person sounds unpleasant, but you really don't have any chips to bargain with and they can still withdraw the offer and go to the minimum. I'd bite their hand off before they change their mind.

I think you would be very foolish to ignore all the good advice you’ve had here.

The ex gratia amount is 4 weeks pay.

You are entitled to 2 weeks salary or to be given 2 weeks notice to leave which which you have to work plus any accrued and untaken holiday.

They are offering to let you leave immediately with 6 weeks salary and your accrued holiday on top.

The CEO’s text is confusing because he refers to both severance and PILON but they are the same thing in this context.

I knew you wouldn’t be happy with the offer because of some of the insane suggestions some posters have made earlier on this thread. You really do need to find someone in real life to give you advice you feel you can trust and quickly otherwise you run the risk of missing your chance to take the payment.

Are you a member of a union or do you have legal expense cover as part of for example any insurance cover? Does your company have an EAP which you can access whilst still employed. Or if as I have guessed you are a legal EA do you have any contacts from previous roles who you could ask for an opinion?

Thank you for proving me correct 😂

Does an ex gratia amount include the notice you are entitled to? They have to give me 2 weeks notice and they’re adding another 2 weeks. So is the ex gratia amount 2 weeks or 4 weeks?

I think you have misread.

The text you posted offered the 2 weeks notice you were entitled to, plus 4 weeks severance (which is the ex gratia element) plus the accrued holiday pay (which is also your legal entitlement)

Hi [Marie2023],

I would like to make this very easy.

You are legally entitled to 2 weeks severance pay. I’ve asked the team to provide 4 weeks severance pay and also if you want to resign effective immediately, I will pay you out the notice pay as well. You will also be paid any outstanding leave and entitlements. Together this will take you to the end of January. I think this is a fair compromise.

Separately, you mentioned concerns about [Group Counsel’s] and [Compliance Officer’s] behaviour and I am taking that allegation very seriously. I would welcome the opportunity to have this in writing so I can formally raise this.

Alternatively you are welcome to return to work and we can work through these issues. I want to do what minimises the stress the least.

Beat regards,

[CEO]

If, for example, your weekly gross salary is £300, you will be paid 4x£300 severance plus 2x£300 PILON plus outstanding holiday pay.
So thats £1800 + holiday pay.
You’re only entitled to £600 + holiday pay.

Does that help?

@Katrinawaves I think you might be right as that takes us up to the end of January.

Also, if I take the money, could I still take action against GC and CO? Just asking as I have no intention of doing this, I am just looking at their motivation.