Any Employment Lawyers or HR people around?

[Marie2023]

I could really do with some guidance, if that’s OK.

Basically I have been bullied at work by a very senior member of staff. The Board are now involved. It is clear that me and the member of staff can no longer work together so I have offered to leave.

I have been told that I will receive a ‘generous payout’. The thing is, I don’t know what I should be expecting. Given the time of year, I may be out of work for some time.

So what does a ‘generous payout’ look like, in relation to monthly salary? Any ideas please?

Thanks.

i negotiate settlement agreements between employers and employees/reps. I would be laughed at if I asked for 9 months salary in these circumstances. The only time I have got near that is where the employee had been there for years and had a potentially valid claim if she wanted to go to tribunal.

What @Katrinawaves says is a good approach.

She seems to think she will be getting a payment, so I do wonder if she has been told this. But agree that anything other than PILON is generous in the circumstances.

If all they offer is what you are legally entitled to anyway (I.e. PILON and holiday pay) then I’d refuse to sign any written settlement agreement as you’re effectively agreeing to be gagged for no compensation.

Yes,. don't settle for less than 6 months. Make sue that they pay for a lawyer for you to review the agreement. And make sure they give you a reference as part of the settlement.

I give up

Why on earth would they pay for 6 months’ worth of pay…?

You did all you could and gave exceedingly sensible advice. Hopefully anyone else finding this thread in future will benefit from it.

@user701 There's only so much you can do.

Because she has been bullied and has proof that the HR manager was also complicit.

The OP needs to phone ACAS and see if she can claim for constructive dismissal as there a exceptions even if you have not have not had 2 years employment.

I do not work in HR but companies cannot bully people.

@IMustDoMoreExercise you are wrong and giving unhelpful advice

The fact is that the OP hasn’t given enough detail for anyone to give definitive advice. Every situation is different.

I know someone who got 12 months salary in a similar situation because they were privy to extremely sensitive commercial information and the company wanted to ensure that wasn’t divulged externally.

Sometimes the company’s position is driven by how much commercial or reputational damage the departing employee can do. We don’t know if the OP is a risk to the company or not.

Well, I do work in HR and there is zero evidence from what the OP has said in her posts that she has been bullied or that the HR manager was "complicit."

It may be the case but based on the information OP has provided they have no obligation to pay her more than her notice and holiday. OP, I'd strongly suggest you listen to the employment lawyers and HR workers on this thread.

Hi everyone, thanks for your good advice. I agree, 9 months pay would be ridiculous. However, 6 months I think would be generous and 3 months would be fair. I’ll see what they come back with.

@IMustDoMoreExercise she feels bullied. There is a difference.

The one example she has given is an incident where she refused a direct instruction from one of the people she supports which sparked a conflagration which ended in her being threatened with dismissal. Clearly that’s not ideal on the part of the senior individual here but none of us can judge whether OP was right to refuse the direct instruction or was being obstructive.

Being sent an email whilst off on a few days sick with requests of work to complete when she returns to work is not extraordinary or newsworthy and does not constitute bullying in any way.

An HR Director reviewing an email from a senior employer to a junior employee where there is a dispute between them does not make the HR Director or the company “complicit” in bullying.

The OP said that she did have proof that the HR person told the bully to be more nasty.

No, the OP should not listen to the people on here as she has no idea of their qualifications.

She needs to ring ACAS tomorrow and see what they say.

There are exceptions to claiming constructive dismissal if you have not been employed for 2 years.

Please ring ACAS tomorrow and see if you can claim constructive dismissal as there are exceptions to the 2 year rule.

OP

Your notice period is 2 weeks, you have been there less than 2 years, the details you have shared do not seem massively awful.

Their idea of a generous pay out may well be 4 weeks pay ie twice the notice that you contractually have.

(not HR nor a lawyer, but have been made redundant in the past and deal with employment contracts sometimes so know something about some but not all processes)

No, the OP should not listen to the people on here as she has no idea of their qualifications

As applicable to you as the rest of us, of course.

The OP has not given enough info but she needs to contact ACAS tomorrow.

“The OP said that she did have proof that the HR person told the bully to be more nasty.”

To be less nice is distinctly different from to be more nasty. Op said the former.

And that may be something like the original email saying “I left instructions to do X, you did not do X, perhaps something came up” to “My instructions to do X were not followed” - the latter is less “nice”, more factual, but is not “more nasty”

Why is saying that she should contact ACAS tomorrow wrong?

No-one on here can advise as the OP has not given enough information.

If it helps OP, here is the legislation which sets out the complete list of circumstances in which it is is possible to claim constructive or unfair dismissal with less than 2 years employment. Nothing you have posted so far is on this list but have a look and see if you can bring yourself within any of the exceptions. If it’s not on this list, it’s not an exception to the two year rule however whatever Mumsnet thinks of the rights and wrongs of your situation unless there has been discrimination on the basis of a protected characteristic.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/part/X/chapter/I/crossheading/other-dismissals

I agree that she should contact ACAS if she wants some more advice or information.

However you did advise her. You said "don't settle for less than six months." Which is frankly ludicrous from the limited information she's provided.

@IMustDoMoreExercise

i was responding to this comment

“Because she has been bullied and has proof that the HR manager was also complicit.

The OP needs to phone ACAS and see if she can claim for constructive dismissal as there a exceptions even if you have not have not had 2 years employment.

I do not work in HR but companies cannot bully people.”

1. there is no proof she had been bullied, or that HR was “complicit” in any bullying
2. companies can (sadly) bully people - employees have very little protection in the first 2 years
3. yes there are specific and limited exceptions to the 2 year rule. Nothing OP has described would fall within those exceptions.

which is why the people on this thread who do know and understand employment law have advised her that her position is very weak and given good advice on what to ask for and how to approach the conversation to maximise her opportunity. But they can just sack her tomorrow and give two weeks notice - they don’t even have to make it pay in lieu of notice, they can insist she works it.