And Suella has been sacked

[WellWellSaidTheRockingChair]

not before time - wonder who will get the poison chalice.

if William Hague is still in the commons, but o don’t think he is, Rishi would be wise to draw in his experience and counsel.

Yeh people like doing this. It’s prestigious and world affairs are no small dice

I’m in Wales too…
It’s definitely better. It means you can vote for what you actually like without worrying about FPTP - it’s safe to split your vote across parties too. Though actually, our form of PR isn’t the most representative.
What you are talking about is the view of people towards the party in power - it’s not because of PR, but we do know that more people support the party in power than is necessarily the case with FPTP

Oh please stop with the childish nonsense I haven’t said that I agree with her views I have said many will (and also mentioned this was unfortunate which should tell you something)

I said she was self serving

this is the issue so many now have to prove how anti Tory they are they can’t actually have a debate or even a discussion about politics they just have to throw accusations around grow up

I see a lot of calls on mn for PR. Not really generally but it comes up a fair bit on these threads

Wouldn’t the extremes get in more? Labour split for left Corbynite type party, SB could head up to the right

You’d get a broader system, with both extremes holding sway.

Imo it breaks down when the tail wags the dog as the Greens have for SNP. Smaller parties shouldn’t get more leverage than democratically relevant

Its like an episode of Game of Thrones.

The person sacked hides in the shadows plotting their return...

But anyway has anything like the events of the last 3 years ever happened before in British Politics? Or is this completely unprecedented?

How many home secretaries have we had in the last 3 years?

I read I don’t think many would see Suella Braverman as extreme as including yourself (in light of other things you’ve said). If that’s not the case, apologies.
I’m not asking anyone to prove anything. You seem to be the one throwing accusations around.

I agree that Tories were expected to win but not take as many Labour seats that they did

I do remember the shock of this (and not from Labour)

Having said that, the support for fascism in the UK is clearly disturbingly high, and I'm sure Braverman speaks for a significant number of people. Fascism? Suella Braverman is a right wing politician not a fascist. Hitler and Mussolini were fascists as you well know. I don't like Braverman but she's not a fascist

Honestly, any Tory with an unassailable majority and who wants the job is a potential future leader. They're about to be absolutely slaughtered in the next GE. It'll be a brilliant result for them if they can hit 150 and they may end up with a lot less.

4 different foreign secretaries since start of Sept 2021.

And 5 home secretaries ( Suella twice) Since start of September 2022.

The quiet tories are the ones who vote for keeping money in their pockets. They might tell their friends that they want better schools and hospitals, but they vote for lower taxes.

They will vote for Kemi Badenoch, not Sue Ellen.

In light of other things I’ve said cardibach

What because I don’t call Tory voters scum and or that I actually read about all areas politics rather than just take my knowledge of politics from a left echo chamber

That's the point: they should get as much as democratically relevant. If Corbynite/left Labour or Braverman/right Tories represent 15-20% of the population, they should get 15-20% of seats, no more and no less. That's not enough to rule, by a long way. Yes, it's enough to exert an influence, but that's precisely the point. If they represent a significant part of the electorate they should exert an influence - that's how democracy is supposed to work.

And anyway, the extreme right exerted plenty of influence pushing us into The Brexit Shaped Disaster Of The Century without getting a single MP elected, simply by the way the so-called centre right had to adjust to keep them on side. What's needed is not the continued narrowing of political representation to shut out dissenting voice, but genuine representation combined with a better level of public education and debate.

There's also no reason to believe that centrism is always the right answer, particularly to new or unforeseen challenges, or that that which is considered "extreme" necessarily wrong. I suspect that the solutions necessary to properly deal with climate change, for example, will be ones we'd call extreme (and I don't mean only in a leftist sense, but in ways that challenge more fundamental sacred cows of how we live as a society). Meanwhile, we sleepwalk into global eco-suicide because our political systems are designed to ensure "safe" (ie conservative) governments.

Brexit may have been a deal with the right but it was still a referendum

We got to vote and a few more said yes so that’s democracy too

Sometimes we forget we are all going to die. We think this time we are living in is historically important but it's just the blink of an eye really. All this drama whipped up by the media. All these self serving politicians. All of these armchair experts on forums and social media, me included. We know nothing, we all just make noise. It felt more stable in Tudor times.

Off with all their heads.

In those days people believed in God. Now we worship social media

It amuses me how liberal left Mumsnet is. All the Tory hating - so different to what I see IRL.

So many disgruntled right-wing zealots on the backbenchers now, all with an eye on being Tory leader: Patel, Badenoch, Braverman, maybe even Truss!

Their party is spoiled for choice.

@roarrfeckingroar In addition it's the assumption on MN that as soon as Sir Kier is annointed as PM (ably assisted by Diane Abbott as Home Sec), that we will be living in a state of nirvana. So naïve.

Before you all pile on, just remember two things, 1) the majority of UK adults don't pay income tax, and 2) governments don't have their own money, it's YOUR money.

But anyway, I'm sure everything will be grand, lol.

@TheThingIsYeah exactly! I'm almost excited to see the collective backtracking / excuses when Labour change very little. See also the NHS - where money goes to die - always cited as terribly under funded on MN. Nuts.

There are others that have their eye on the leadership Tobias Ellwood, Johnny Mercer, Rory Stewart

these are probably more of a threat to Labour for the following election

This is true.
True Conservative voters have no-one to vote for and in a so called free country that's unacceptable 😕.

Extreme parties would have more success in getting seats, yes, but because everyone has to make deals to actually take up government the actual ruling party tends to be more centrist.
If people are voting for extremes, they should be represented, but I think once the distortion of FPTP goes the will to be extreme might quieten down too. Also when you actually get extremists out into the light, people can wee how hopeless they tend to be at a wider brief. Plus if UKIP had got more representation I actually think a Brexit referendum would have been less likely - people need to feel represented.

@roarrfeckingroar Yep. This.

No. Because you keep suggesting Braverman is supported by a quiet majority and sounding like it’s what you hope is true. If I’ve misinterpreted that, as I said, apologies. You seem to want me to be a left wing extremist with no other knowledge. Now, while I’ll hold my hand up to being more left wing than the current shadow cabinet, I’m not in any kind of echo chamber and I can recognise when the left do things that are silly or just wrong.