Uni and foreign students would you say anything?

[thebraispink]

My DD is at uni doing a creative subject and basically she is having to help and support all of the foreign students with their work.

The uni have taken on so so many students who don't speak English over 60% of her course and put no translators in place, so my DD is having to help explain everything to those poor students who have broken English at best.

The uni has literally just taken all the money, it's making my DD course really dumbed down and keeping her back, it's not great for the foreign students as they are pretty out of their depth and miserable.

From my stance we are paying a shit ton for this course, and its teaching is poor and the overall experience is a bit shit.

All of these students will leave after 3 years, and take this education to their countries which is great but it leaves the UK students with a sub standard experience and shitty degree.

Should there be a limits on how many students can be from overseas? Should the uni have to provide interpreters? Is anyone else's kids in the same situation?

We are considering moving her from the uni on these grounds as she spends more time helping her peers than she does being taught.

Did you go elsewhere?

It's on her google drive? He register list.

St Martins, you say? Do they not come from Greece and have a thirst for knowledge?

What does that mean?

I currently have two friends here in the Middle East whose daughters are at Central Saint Martins and they speak English to a native English speakers standard. I also have a Neice who’s just graduated from there. She’s Lebanese but has fluent English.

OP you are right, seen this too.

According to their diversity report, the number of ‘foreign’ students is far fewer than your DD believes, unless they all happen to be on her course!

It will sound racist perhaps but when DH was a TEFL teacher the biggest problem the school had was with Chinese students. Many didn't engage but would provide absolutely perfect work. Some would be excellent but there was a suspicion in the local industry (lots of schools here) that the same individuals were showing up at different schools with different names over several years. So someone would come in, do the exams or whatever, get the certificate and then pass it to someone else to use to get into uni. It was such a huge money earner for the schools too so I don't think they particularly cared as long as all the paperwork was in order.

So yes I think that it's likely there are a large number of foreign students at uni in the UK with very poor English language skills.

fyi - I was a foreign student here too but my English is of a high standard.

They are on her course unless she spent time making up names to add to a google drive and to share with me a totally made up situation!

Sorry - my Neice works for Ellie Saab after doing an internship with Zuhair Murad and she’s just received a job offer from a European couture fashion house.

Take it as high as you can at the Uni, involve your MP if necessary.
Unfair on your daughter, unfair on overseas students.
I did supply for a class where one Year 5 girl was translating every bit of every lesson for two other girls. Anything they needed had to come through the one girl, it was so unfair on her. Only time I heard a professional interpreter involved was when the kids had a playground row and refused to speak to each other afterwards.

I have worked in two universities and they both required overseas students to pass exams in English both spoken and written before they were accepted so I find OPs post odd, They certainly wouldn't lower their standards for overseas students.Also most Universities rely on overseas students fees which are much higher than home fees, I doubt the university could afford to reduce the number of overeseas students

That's not CSM....

That's great, amazing work by your niece.

Maybe it’s because Chinese students all look the same 🙄. Yes, you do sound racist.

I would disagree with you. The university I work at has a 6.5 overall with no section less than 5.5 on IELTS and while most of our Indian students have good English, very few of the Chinese ones have adequate speaking/listening skills in English. Their written skills tend to be a bit better. How, it is really obvious that they are not following what is going on in lectures.

To be honest, I think it's unethical to accept students who do not have the necessary language skills but it's all about money.

OP - I would suggest your dd and her concerned classmates contact the student union for advice. Ideally, that should include some of the international students with adequate English as I'm sure they are also frustrated. It is better coming from a group rather than an individual and definitely better if it includes international students so there can be no suggestion of xenophobia.

I did a social sciences degree 20 years ago at a London uni and there were a lot of Asian students on my course with poor English, too. I'm actually not a native English speaker but there was quite a marked difference between the international students from European countries and those from China and Japan. There are language requirements but I think one issue is that an IELTS language test is very different from actually understanding theory or being able to discuss it! A lot of what we studied was complex and difficult enough to fully understand even if it was in your native language. I imagine art degrees are similar.

So you’ve decided they can’t speak English based on their names...wow! Thats not at all problematic. 🤔

Do you also ask non white people where they’re ‘really’ from if they tell you they’re British?

The university I work at has a 6.5 overall with no section less than 5.5 on IELTS

this is my experience of the requirements.

sorry but she should not be helping them!! they came to uk so should be better prepared with a decent grasp on the language!! tell her to concentrate on her own work and talk to her lecturers.

Are you assuming I'm white? And my daughter is white.

And yes I'm very sorry for the fact that I can tell by surnames and the English names where the students are from. I can't tell if their can speak English from their surname no, but I can listen and hear my daughters frustration and time she is spending explaining concepts.

@MrsDoylesLastTeabag that made me laugh....
@thebraispink I think you are getting a ridiculously hard time on here. Your daughter needs to start saying no to helping (unless she wants to) and she needs to constructively complain (bring it up)

My DS is in a similar situation - the only native English speaker in his discussion seminars - he says it feels like he has private tuition as the others don't engage or produce the required work - not great.

There are a lot of posters on this thread who have no understanding of the current situation in universities in the UK.

The pressure to bring in more and more income is driving huge amounts of international recruitment. In some UK universities - particularly the central London ones, such as Kings, UCL and LSE, almost 50% of the student population is now made up of Chinese students.

There are a number of IELTS test rackets running in China. As PPs have said, people frequently pay to have someone else sit the test for them. There is also a difference between being able to sit a written test using formal English in which the context is clearly defined, to being able to manage in a lecture where academic English is being rapidly spoken with minimal support material in terms of words or pictures to help give you the context of the discussion. Moreover, the IELTS standard for universities is not really an accurate indicator of how truly fluent someone's English is anyway - it's really the equivalent of a high grade at GCSE and students can be taught the tricks to pass the test quite easily. Parroting some prepared phrases for an exam you've been coached to take for several months does not equate to fluency. Universities know this but there is no incentive for them to challenge the system because they profit from it.

Many of these Chinese students rely on simultaneous translation apps during lectures, Chat GPT to write essays, and as they are often wealthy, they can also pay people to write or edit their work for them.

The whole situation is a disgrace, for everyone involved.