What’s acceptable? Yes - No answers

[SirMcDoddle]

dh and dd are having an argument and i need your help to settle it.
Dd is mid 20s and back at home after Uni.
Dh and dd just cannot agree on what’s polite and ok to do so I’d ask you what your thoughts are. Would you think it’s ok to

1- never go out of the house Wo saying goodbye/telling people you’re going out
2- never go out of the house wo leaving a message if the other person is busy (eg in a meeting with work)
3- you need to tell people if your plans in good time - if possible (eg in Wednesday, I’ll be out all day or I won’t be in on Thursday evening)

Dh thinks dd should always do all of the above. Otherwise she is treating everyone like flatmates which we are not. And is therefore very rude if her not to do it.
dd says he is a hypocrite because he doesn’t do that when going to see his parents.
Both would agree it’s not about dd asking for permission to do anything.
So what happens in your house? Very happy with Yes and No answers. I’m trying to evaluate everyone’s expectations here and ‘guide’ the resolution.

If I'm around I would expect my adult child to tell me they are going out. If I'm busy they don't have to. They have phone's so I can always text and ask where they are if needed. Their life is theirs so I wouldn't expect them to let me know if they have plans with any kind of notice unless we had plans already to do something.

For the person doing any food shopping or cooking, it is a right pain in the neck to cater for people who don't bother to tell you that they won't be home for dinner.

And between DH and his hobbies, 3 dcs and theirs, I find it a pain to try and plan, not waste food etc… when people can’t be bothered to say what they are doing
tbf dh is now much better about it. But I think that’s the reason why he is now so ‘strict’ on it with dd 😁😁

I wouldn't just randomly leave the house without letting DP know - surely this is the same?

1 - we'd tell someone but wouldn't go round telling everyone, we don't shout from the front door as we are not a shouty family, the house layout means most probably wouldn't hear anyway. Same coming back, we wouldn't go round telling everyone we are back. If they are on a call or something I might not tell them I'm back till they come out of their room.
3 - up to a point, we all go out on the spur of the moment a lot, and are used to very flexible cooking and eating. I'd draw the line at someone going out when someone else had just cooked their dinner but otherwise, it'll
keep or be eaten the next day.

Meal planning and if there will be visitors. "BTW is Granny Jones is coming for the afternoon or dinner".
"She will be leaving about 5.30 will you be back in time to say hello"?

I do think it is basic manners and respect to say goodbye when leaving the house, either by saying so or leaving a note. I wouldn't mind the 'in advance' thing if I knew it was for meal planning.

I think me and my family do this unconsciously. When I lived at home and I was leaving I’d probably say oh I’m off the shops then where ever else and say whether you’ll be in for tea - see you later. Most days me, my mum and sister message each other a good morning, what are you up to today?
But my partners family do the opposite. They just walk out the house and say byee and no one has the foggiest where they’ve gone.

It's sounds like controlling someone, you can leave wo saying goodbye, or you can have spontaneous plans and don't say about them, it's not crucial, but still you need to understand that you need to be polite with your friend and at least anounce him later or answer his the phone when he calls and worry about you.

@MammaTo it sounds like what DH family are doing.

I was 😵‍💫😵😵 when I first saw that. Really uncomfortable as I felt I was extremely rude by just going.

Stop making her dinner if she's not in the house, just assume she's out. She can say goodbye or message to say she's gone out.

She only should let you know if she's going to be out all night for safety reasons, otherwise she's an adult and can come and go as she pleases surely?

God. Sounds really uptight to me. I'm not even that strict with my 15 year old! But then I wouldn't be cooking for my adult kids in the first place unless they specifically asked.

💯

At the end of the day, what do you want to achieve? Perfect meal planning and etiquette to your liking, or a relationship with your adult daughter that makes her not feel stifled and like she is back being treated like a 12 year old so she moves out super fast and never looks back?

She has been independent for a while, you have done a good job! Don’t clip her wings and make her report back every movement. At her age, most of them are not even planned “in good time”, it’s all spur of the moment. Sure, telling you whether she will be home to sleep that night is important for locking up and for safety, but she should be free to say (or text) “actually, change of plan , I’m staying at [friend’s] house tonight” or whatever, without you kicking up a fuss. She is an adult. Trust the daughter you raised!

1&2 yes, it’s just polite.
3 no, more likely to ask in advance if everyone is in for dinner on a certain day, otherwise they can help themselves or have it microwaved.
It’s also polite to offer a cup of tea if you put the kettle on or see if anyone else needs anything if you’re popping to the shop.

Absolutely it's polite to let people know before you go out and especially if you'll be in for meals or not. To do otherwise would be extremely rude. It doesn't have to be a big thing I'd always call out "Mum I'm off to Louise's ..will be back before tea etc" She'd always do the same, or leave a note for me. Perhaps things were different when nobody had mobiles though?

Your dd is an adult, she doesn't need permission to go out. The only time I'd want to know is if I was cooking tea, if she wanted feeding etc.

I think it's polite to come and say hello when you get home or a 'bye I'm off out, should be home tonight, or I'll be back Monday' etc.

Your dh is treating her like a child, she's not.

I don't think she needs to do any of it.

It's polite to call out "Bye" when you leave the house to anyone who happens to be listening. You don't need to seek every person out who might be asleep/in the bath/have headphones on/be in a meeting etc and ensure that they know that you have left.

1.Fairly reasonable but small post it or text once left house out of courtesy would be fine. Wouldn't be devastated with no comment but would be fuming if I'd made dinner or expected them back. That would be unacceptable if they were out long, my anxiety would be triggered.

Yeah my OH thinks we’re all dead weird 😂😂.
I have always put it down to my parents being a lot older then his, they’re a lot more relaxed whereas mine was always strict.

We always say if we're going out. Sometimes giving an estimated return time, but not always. That's all 4 of us if we are all at home.

We're in a similar situation, DS(25) recently back home.

It's never really been discussed, but out of sheer habit we do tell each other if we're going out and where. Sometimes it'll be mentioned hours in advance ('I'll be out tonight with FriendA and FriendB at VenueC so you don't have to feed me tonight', then a 'that's me off now' as he leaves), or not ('just going for a coffee, see you later'). We tell DS if we're going out too. My not-very-exciting 'I'm going to the supermarket, do you want anything' or DH's 'just off for a bike-ride, be back at 12' kind of thing.

But - all three of us always let the other two know that we're going out. So if your DH wants your DD to do this, then he has to reciprocate. I wouldn't say it's hypocritical of him not to - but it is a bit of a power play on his part if he expects others to keep him informed when he doesn't return the courtesy.

I feel like 1 is absolutely fair.

2 is reasonable but could also just be a text/WhatsApp message.

3 is only a thing if there's an actual effect on you (e.g. you usually cook for you all and she doesn't need food that night or she's bringing someone by the house so you should be aware of the potential for additional company).

@SquigglePigs yes that’s the reason why I/we are pushing the idea of the calendar/telling people when she will be out.
One of the issue here too is that it’s not just her. She has two younger siblings. Between the 3 of them and DH, how many people will need lunch/dinner can vary from 1 or 2 to 5 on a regular basis.
I get that some people are quite flexible re what they eat/how/when. I find it hard work, prob not helped by the various diet ‘rules’ they all have (one dc cannot cope Wo a carb heavy meal, I am discovering I might have diabetes, dd can be picky etc….)

Can’t she sort her own meals out?

Well yes she can and does if she isn’t in when we are eating.

But if she is always sorting out all her meals, we’ll never eat together.