Parents who let your toddlers run feral, how are your kids now?

[Fruitcakesanddogs]

I have a 23 month old. I am very relaxed with him. He’s messy, loud and basically a complete hurricane. I try to just let him do his thing, unless of course he’s going to harm someone else or is really annoying someone.

I know some people don’t like this kind of parenting. If that’s you then fair enough. However I am interested in hearing from parents who did take a more relaxed approach with their toddler. How did it turn out for you?

I gentle parent, you permissive parent (sniff) and they are fucking horrific “parents” who are too lazy to enforce boundaries, isn’t that how it goes?

also they do understand far more, especially if it is simple language and not adult friendly “kind hands” bullshit.

@Taketurn Well quite a lot grow out of it without too much guidance, but in our case dc1 needed lots a scaffolding and guiding for much longer (at least until year 2). Lots of kids need much more active shapping. You have to parent the child you've got. I never had a chilled out 4 year old, both DC were like whirlwind Tasmanian devils waaay beyond 4.

Exactly this. I’m a parent of a 2yo and 4yo, and also a primary school teacher. I am unfailingly calm with my children, parent with a huge amount of love but also have very very firm boundaries. They’re both confident, calm and well behaved children (according to their nursery and school).

However, I only have the skills to do this from over a decade of teaching. I wonder if there needs to be more widely shared information about behaviour management strategies for small children, because atm the approaches seem to be permissive/no parenting vs authoritarian shouting and nothing in between.

In answer to your question OP, a good friend of mine had a very abusive childhood so parents completely permissively. She’s really regretting this now her two are 3 and 5, and trying desperately to put loving boundaries in place. It’s got to the point now where she’s given up taking them to certain activities because she worries that she can’t keep them and others safe. As it’s half term, she asked us to come to a story and craft session with her earlier in the week so that I could help keep her children calm. She (obviously) has had no family support with parenting and her partner has left. I wonder if she would have benefitted From something like a Sure Start Centre, a point of support for things like this.

What you really want to communicate to your child is - it's OK to be upset and I am OK with that as your mum, I will help you through and we are leaving now. That's the balance and that's the security for him, I can trust my mum to make the decisions and look after my feelings. I was more matter of fact, but equally loving and probably more of an attachment parent, and he was and is all the more cooperative for it. He is still confident and self assured etc.
A simple difficult situation go to is ACT - Acknowledge it's difficult/his feelings
Communicate what is going to happen/what's not allowed
Target, ie move on to another alternative.

Janet Lansbury advises prepping in advance and I did this from before 12m and found it really effective 'When I've brushed your teeth I'm going to put you in your buggy. You might not like that and I'll help you with. You can start this prepping just about everyday things 'When we get home, we'll have our lunch etc.' Let's them know what's happening and what to expect and gives them security within the daily routines and rituals. Expected routines are super for a child's security.

I have a niece and nephew that were left to run wild, left to do what they wanted and had no boundaries. Both are having issues at school due to their behaviours and not understanding why they can't do what they want when they want. Children need boundaries. There are far too many of these little darlings running about and they disrupt the classes/activities for all the other kids. My SIL was so happy when we invited my niece for a play date as she never gets invited by her peers.

I’m fairly gentle OP. I try to say yes unless there’s a good reason to say no. I try not to be shouty or to get into battles - though definitely fall short of those ideals sometimes.

However, in your shop example - I don’t think it’s appropriate behaviour to touch/ pick up/ wander round with goods in a shop you have no intention of buying. It’s just not really ok to do in most shops/ circumstances - I’m sure your DS isn’t doing any harm to a toy dinosaur but what about when it’s a food item or something delicate or breakable? I’d absolutely take a toy off him in this circumstance, gently and with appropriate explanation/ empathising/ distraction. It’s not the same as another child snatching something from him, it’s you being the adult and helping him with a hard transition.

I also think it helps to think sometimes that we’re actually being a little unfair to them to put all that responsibility on them - basically we’re saying to them ‘ok you decide when we leave the shop, you decide whether we’re going in the pushchair or not, you decide whether you’re ready to say goodbye to that dinosaur’ - but he’s only 2, his brain isn’t ready for those kind of decisions and responsibilities, those are your job. I know it’s done with absolute love and wanting him to be happy, but I also think sometimes it’s fear of them being upset/ kicking off. The hardest thing for me has been learning to be totally ok with the fact she might be upset and react accordingly, it’s still my decision as the adult when we leave the shop/ whether the buggy is required etc.

You sound like a lovely mum, and your love for DS is very clear.

I have a large age gap. My first had strict rules to follow and I was quite a strict parent with him, he is now 14 and has been an absolute angel for years. We never have any trouble with him, he follows rules, he doesn’t get in trouble, he understands how to communicate etc.
my youngest is only 5. She was a toddler through covid, and I was extremely relaxed about everything. There were very few rules, and while she is a fun person she is very difficult to parent. She doesn’t eat anything, she doesn’t listen, she doesn’t walk nicely, she rebels against rules! She has started school, and she keeps taking things from school, I make her return it every time and apologise. Her behaviour in school is good and she does listen there. And she is better behaved with me. Her dad has zero chance, he has no control over her at all. i don’t think we’ve done her any favours, and it wasn’t intentional it was just circumstance. You know, we weee all at home I wasn’t working, she had a lot of attention and very little reason for there to be any rules if that makes sense because we couldn’t go anywhere or see anyone.
I think my eldest probably had a harder time as a child but he is reaping the benefits now! 😂
oh and I have no issue talking about how she was feral as a toddler, I’m not ashamed of how things went then. And actually it’s given her a very strong spirit, a good sense of identity, a mind of her own, all things that are actually good things. She has also reaped benefits from her early years, they’re just different to my eldests.

A point made earlier on about not being the child's friend is key.

You aren't, you're their parent. Raise them into the kind of person you would want to be friends with goes along way.

Have fun, laugh, joke, share, but always be that trusted adult they've faith in to keep them safe, protected and respect.
You will only have that with boundaries.

It is sooo hard to parent a toddler. My boy was an angel until he was about 2 and a half (or until his baby brother started to take Mammy's attention a little). He is now very strong-willed and can be defiant. It's exhausting trying to teach him where the line is. It would be sooo much easier (for me) to not do this. My eyes got opened when he played up at the zoo a few months ago. It was utterly embarrassing and broke my heart and I decided there and then that I would not allow it to continue. I feel like your job as a parent is to raise kids who are 'likable' and can integrate well into civilised society by the age of about 4. If you don't, your child will struggle to fit in with their peers and will get treated badly by adults who hate to see them coming...whether you will get to see this or not! Do you want that to be your child's experience of the world around them? I feel like in order to achieve this by 4 you need to start asap. They don't need to understand the boundaries, they just need to know they are there. It's a parent's job to teach them social skills...even if it's hard for both to do....because it is hard....reallllly hard! I wish you well, and just know you are not alone in the struggle!

The more I read your posts, the more I think you are failing your son. I am not a particularly strict or authoritarian parent at all, but part of my job is teaching.my children that sometimes, they have to do things they don't want to do. That often, it turns out the small disadvantage is worth it - eg sit in the buggy for 20 minutes so you can go to soft play.

Your toy in a shop example is actually very rude- I assure you that while staff in a toy shop are fine with a certain amount of touching and in store playing, him refusing to let go for ages is rude and entitled.

You are teaching him that whatever he wants to do is what you will do. That will help no one, least of all him.

I also agree with other posters that he will struggle with social and school settings. The child we know like yours has not done well at school and is widely disliked by a large number of families. He's very confident and sociable but has no idea of appropriate behaviour and as he gets older, it's becoming increasingly clear that this will be more and more of a problem. Random adults are still quite indulgent as he's only 7, but his parents are starting to get more comments and last time I was with him, I saw some really tense/shocked looks sent his way.

Totally understand the buggy thing too, my daughter didn’t go in a buggy from being 14 months old when covid hit. Why would I put her in a buggy for our only exercise of the day for that hour…so she never went in one. After the lockdowns I would put her in (yes I do just force her in, I have no problem with that) but it was just horrific because she’s just sob and cry the entire time 😂🙈 she did settle down with it eventually but it took about a year, and it was inifinitely easier for her to be able to walk etc. but yeah I totally understand the buggy thing.

All the 'free range' toddlers I've known have grown into entitled 'sensitive' teenagers who are frankly brats.

You are doing your son no favours at all.

I'm all for free play and letting children safely explore the world to understand their place in it, but that comes with boundaries to keep them safe and help them navigate the ups and downs so they can live as part of the world rather than apart from the world.

Yeah. Also, chances are you are oblivious. Sil thinks people LOVE having her dc attempt to join their meals, chat for 20 minutes etc.

Why are parents so reluctant to say ‘no’ to their child? @Fruitcakesanddogs being a parent means being in control, setting boundaries, having expectations and being a great role model. What are you teaching your child: to do everything on their terms? To not consider others in their actions? That it’s okay to defy instruction? What do you think this looks like when they are school age, an adult, when trying to have a relationship? Your almost 2 year old might be cute now, but he won’t be so cute at 15 when he disrespects you on an everyday basis. Please think very carefully about the long term consequences of your soft parenting now.

I actually despair and think all parents should do a stint in a secondary school to see what passive parenting creates. It’s not a good outcome for the child, in any way shape or form.

Oh, there are lots of children like this in <insert quirky part of NE London here>. Little Persephone and Leaf, who were left to "find their own boundaries" as toddlers and who, as they have grown, are selfish, entitled, and complain to their "delightful" parents if asked to not use their scooters indoors, not leave the floor covered in the books they have wrecked while they were "exploring" them, not eat their home-made yummy whole-grain snacks indoors (they don't like the snacks so they crumble them and leave tracks of them all round the library like Hansel and Gretel, except it's the mice that eat them)....

It's usually parents who can't be bothered to parent (they would call it "light-touch" or gentle parenting) and think that money will make up for their lack of attention who inflict their children on the rest of society.

The parents don't have to deal with the chaos and destruction their children leave in their wake.

We dread them. YMMV.

Mil has always been very critical of how strict we are with our kids. That was until recently when she went out with her friend's grand children who are the result of gentle parenting. Now she thinks we're great parents 😂

I know a few adults who were parented like this in my extended family/family friends. All of them have gone on to a fairly unconventional adult life, except one who was very bright and ended up working in tech on a high salary. One of them is autistic (went to an autistic specialist school) and spends his days living at home playing computer games. Is mostly pleasant but gets up when he likes and wouldn't hold down a job. Another one got has only worked for brief periods, then made a lot of money out of bitcoin years ago and now just does what they like. One girl got pregnant as a teen, stayed on benefits for over a decade until she met her DH, who is pretty loaded and she now lives a comfortable life in a big London house with 2 more dc. Has spent most of her life being a parent and has no interest in getting a job.

We didn't let our son run feral but we did let him lead what we did a bit too much. Now he is struggling with regulating his emotions starting school and does not respond well to not getting his own way. I wish we had been stricter and not built our lives so much around him. We have time to fix this and are putting strategies in place to do so.

Your current method works now but what about when he is older? Or you are in a rush? Or it's really busy in the supermarket?

My technique with the toy thing would be to immediately distract and get the toy put back as mine would have probably thought I was going to buy them the toy if I let them walk around the supermarket for an hour with it. I actually think allowing mine to get 'attached' to the toy would have been more difficult than asking them to put it back immediately "put the dinosaur back love and help mummy find the right butter" would have sufficed.

I have a dear friend who gentle parents - like a PP she had an abusive childhood and has made sure she doesn't perpetuate the cycle of abuse but in doing so she never gave her kids any boundaries and quite frankly they are pretty difficult (aged 6 and 9 now). Latest example was when we went to a museum I told mine beforehand we wouldn't be doing the giftshop, she told her kids the same yet somehow the 9yo ended up with a £20 lego set from said gift shop as she wanted it. My lovely friend did give the whole "we'll keep it for your birthday" but it was opened as soon as they got home.

My friend used to let her children essentially do as they pleased as long as they were safe and now they are both brats - by her own admission (yet she doesn't seem to piece together why they are "brats" which is frustrating and I now try to see her without any of our respective DC)

I used to work with Ks1 children and you could always, always tell which ones were gently parented.

He doesn’t need you to reason with him. He needs you, at times, to be the parent and take charge.

I'm really surprised and rather fascinated by this. I've seen my sister do some of these things with my nephews.

For example, the buggy thing, when we're going somewhere. I assumed she just had no idea how to deal with them refusing to get in the buggy, until she made it clear to me they have choices in everything. It is really off putting now because everything takes forever, and the whole focus is on avoiding them kicking off.

I try to practice gentle parenting.
I've got four kids 4-12 and their behaviour is regularly commented on because they are so good.

However, what I cannot stand is permissive parenting.

I set fair and firm boundaries and use natural consequences.

They know that I don't make decisions for the fun of it. I make them to keep them safe and for their emotional and physical wellbeing.

However, I don't believe in time out, shouting or anything like that, and I don't make rules that I think are unfair or pointless and I try to understand their point of view and their way of thinking as much as possible, and explain in a child friendly way why we are doing what we are doing.

I also pick my battles. If they don't want to wear a coat, that's ok. But I take it with me so when they realise they're cold I have it. If they don't want to go to sleep, I don't force it.

My gentle / permissive friend is all about preventing the kids kicking off. She came to my new house with her then 2yo when we first moved in.... brand new carpet throughout. She asked if we minded the 2yo keeping their wellies on as it took an hour for her to convince the child to wear them, we said no it's literally a week old (light) carpet and it was raining, friend said she'd come by another time then. She wasn't rude or offended we said no to her request but she didn't see anything wrong with it either.

That's how batshit things can get.

She has no control over him at all really, he just does whatever he wants. He lies to her about what he's doing, wanders off wherever and whenever he likes and if she tries to find out where he is, he just turns his phone off and stays out of contact until he wants to come home again. He has nothing but contempt for her really,

My teen was like this as a teen, it was a bloody nightmare - but was not feral as a toddler and very easy to set boundaries and was a quite well behaved child

Your parenting style can only work as the time-rich parent of an only child who is naturally easy-going. You may find you need to adjust it as time goes on, definitely if you ever have more than one child, and your child might find it a bit of a culture shock when you do. It may also cause problems when your child interacts with friends in families who do not have the luxury of that style of parenting (ie your child might be a bit of a pita when taken out and about by anyone other than his mother).