Would you tell the school your child isn’t doing detention in this situation?

[beeonmybonnett]

my DD is in Y13 and has got an after school detention due to being late to one of her subject classes two times in the same week. She was only a few minutes late on both occasions - no more than 5 minutes.

In normal circumstances, I would agree with the detention as she should not be being late, I know it happens occasionally as we can get held up at times, but there are no excuses for her being late twice in such a short period of time.

However, the reason I am annoyed at her getting this detention is because the teacher of the subject class she was late to, and is getting the detention as a result of it, is late to class quite often.

For example, DD tells me that the teacher is usually 5-10 minutes late every Monday afternoon when they have that class after lunch. So clearly the teacher has problems getting from the staff room to the classroom in time for the start of the lesson?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for my dd to be spoken to and warned about being late, but I find it absolutely pathetic that this teacher has recommend her head of year give her a detention when the teacher in question is guilty of the same thing - is it not a bit hypocritical?

Not sure why they think this teacher’s lunch break is more important than her a level class but if the student is late then it’s the end of the world.

I’m not sure on how to proceed with this one, but I genuinely feel like ringing the school and telling them to withdraw the detention unless they’re going to discipline the teacher for being late!

Yabu

OP, l have read this thread in full.

To me, it’s a case of one rule for your daughter and one rule for the teacher. One word for it too. Wrong!

My bigger concern would be if you raise this issue with the school, is it possible that your daughter will be picked on? It shouldn’t happen but that is a separate issue.

Course there's different rules for the children and the professionally trained adult employees 🙄

I swear some people have 2 brain cells competing for 3rd place.

@Bovrilla - The first rule for both is mutual respect. That includes punctuality. Teachers are paid to be there and being late not only sets a bad example, it’s rude.

It’s not about brain cells, it’s about courtesy. Just as much as you would expect an MD in the private sector to be as timely as their staff.

For the record, l am not knocking teachers. I am knocking one individual teacher who is disrespectful to their students

Well if you've actually read the full thread you might have seen the myriad of reasons this teacher is late: duty, clubs, running lunchtime detention, etc etc etc

Teachers are not yet capable of teleportation from one side of the school to another in 1 second. Nor are they allowed to walk past incidents or walk away from their lunch duty early to get to classes on time.

This kid was there AFTER the teacher. Frequently it seems. The teacher will have a good reason why they're late. What's the kids excuse? We still haven't heard that.

Having read the full thread all I can say is thank God I left the UK education system this summer after dealing with too many entitled parents like this (and all the other shit too). No wonder more more and more students cannot cope in the real world. Attitudes, behaviour and thinking they don’t have to follow rules are getting worse in promise you. All the examples of what a teacher could be doing to cause lateness was me every single day, especially as a teacher with a pastoral responsibility. Good luck with complaining to her boss when she comes running to you in her future jobs.

OP is a twat and knows it but of course their child is an angel. Thank you for all the reasonable responses, nice to know there’s still backing considering how crazy teaching is. Couldn’t agree more with the poster who said I bet you don’t demand to know why any other service runs late like GP appointments, the police, ambulances, queues at the bank etc.

I think I have laughed, rolled my eyes and almost cried at this whole thread and the OPs responses. These type of parents are increasing sadly and we saw it in the children’s disgust for teachers daily. Oh, and OP…we are down on trainees/teachers more than ever - I can send you the details to sign up to be a teacher if you like?

So basically you want the teacher to say oh it's fine you can be late cos I usually am?!

A child being late interrupts the class. They need to be on time and if not should expect the consequences. As someone said a year 13 student should be able to work independently at the beginning of a lesson.

I think you need to give your head a shake to be honest

The class can't start without the teacher, not being there on time does not disrupt others' learning.

The idea that the teacher is relaxing in a staff room or having a leisurely lunch is laughable.

Does the teacher turn up equipped to teach? It's possible her desk is the other end of the school and she needs to get there.

There may be a lunchtime meeting. There may be parents to see. The teacher may have health issues and needs to take medication.

I have mobility issues and had consecutive classes that involved a lift down the top floor to the one lower down, a trek the length of the school and another lift. I could not do it in the time given. I was told in no uncertain terms that I must not let my class out early and that my second class had to wait for me. So yes I was late for that class, every single time.

Also if she is so late so often how does she know your DD was late?

Also OP Why was your DD late? Did she have a meeting? Needed to call a parent? Perform first aid? Deal with a year 7 having her first period?

1. You only have your daughters word that this teacher is late

2. You are blowing this our of proportion. If your daughter is like me and would find the idea of "being in trouble" anxiety inducing this is not helping. Teach her life is unfair and how to navigate through it. She's also old enough to do her own protesting.

To "steal" from Outnumbered - the teacher outranks your daughter.

Yes, there definitely is one rule for one and one for another.

You don't know why the teacher is late, and I think it does matter what the reason is, just as it would matter if your dd was late because eg she was helping a child who'd fallen over and hurt themselves.

However what on earth is a Y13 getting detentions? That is completely ludicrous, your dd is 18 or nearly. The principle of it is wrong. You don't get detentions in sixth form!

So the default is that the teacher always has a valid reason for being late and the student, who is almost an adult, does not? No further issue because teachers are always right??

lf the teacher has a valid reason beyond their own bad time management, such as meetings etc, it is for the teacher to address this with the school.

A lesson can start without a late student (that’s the student’s look out) but it can’t start without a missing teacher!

I’d like to see how a school is going to address an utterly random situation, like a child, falling over, or coming to you sobbing

So from the teacher being being late once a week (on Mondays) it is now "this teacher is late all the time". Lie? Or exaggeration to whip up sympathy for your daughter? You do know that by stretching the truth as you are doing here you make posters suspicious of your honesty - and maybe your daughter has the same tendency to stretch the truth having learnt the art of exaggeration from her mother.

No that is not the default

The overriding advice is to seperate the 2 issues.

teacher being late - take it up with school if you wish.
Pupil being late - let her serve the consequences as per school rules

The OP's comingling the two and insisting her daughter shouldn't serve the detention BECAUSE the teacher is also late is the issue

And for the hundreth time to many on this thread, yes detention happens in many 6th forms. I don't know why that is shocking. What they turn 17 and don't need misbehaviour addressed?

To hark back to what I said earlier, you really have to wonder why all the students and all the parents aren't already aware that teachers might be late for various perfectly valid reasons. Where is the communication from schools and teachers on this?

Honestly, this entire debate could be avoided if every parent and student is aware when they start at secondary that teachers have other responsibilities that mean they may be late for lessons at particular points of the day and what is expected of students in those circumstances. It would immediately negate any argument that "the teacher is always 10 minutes late".

Just communicate with your students and with their parents. Don't assume that they know you have a valid reason for being late to teach a lesson. Otherwise you run the risk of making your (reasonable) rules look like arbitrary rules for the sake of having rules.

Communication. It's not rocket science.

Apart from your dc being far too old to have mummy fighting her battles, the teacher is working and will have many work related reasons for being held up. She won't be chilling out and socialising during that late period.

A 6th form lesson absolutely CAN start without a teacher, and it should do. A level lessons are onerous in terms of work - they all have PLENTY of work to be doing. 6th form lessons don't get covered for staff absence in many places - because they have so much work to get on with, the money isn't there, and cover is allocated to the lower school. Wrong? Maybe. But a financial necessity.

As for 'a teacher should address this with the school' - oh my goodness! I have lost count of the times we try to do this. There is simply no way round it, we are so short of staff and money in schools to provide cover. It's always a resounding 'tough'. . Your post shows naivety at best (understandable if you're not a teacher) - but the normal rules of industry simply do not apply to teaching. We have to simply get on with it.

On another level - we are also under an awful lot of pressure to improve punctuality and attendance. That doesn't come from teachers, it comes from the head, and the DfE. If we allow student lateness and absence to prevail, we could easily fail an ofsted inspection. So there's that.

if it is the case that she is on lunch duty, then maybe alternative arrangements need to be made. It shouldn’t be getting in the way of her teaching time - esp not when it’s an a level class!

That’s valid, but that’s why you need to deal with this separately- if she’s late because of her duties (presumably with the ok of the school) then that’s not remotely equivalent to your daughter being late for no good reason.

I have an arrangement that I arrive at work a few minutes on some days because of child drop off, that obviously isn’t the same as if I was just swanning in late, is it?

Your daughter did wrong and should carry out the detention (to which you should be supporting the school’s decision).
As you so strongly feel that the teachers regular tardiness (only on the say so of your daughter who is annoyed at the detention!) you should email the school with your concerns and ask for an explanation.

I'm not sure why you have a bee in your bonnet about this. Your dd was late twice in a week to a lesson, if she was late for work she'd probably get the sack. The teacher's lateness is an issue for her employers, the school. Presumably she has a valid reason and I think an A level class should be capable of working without a teacher for a few minutes. I would expect her to have told them to do x if she's late. I think your dd is embellishing the facts a little - I have a dd in year 11. It is your job to support the school.

@tiredofthisshitt - I really do sympathise, I am the first one to support more funding and more teachers. Don't shout too loudly that a 6th form lesson absolutely CAN start without a teacher though, because someone will listen to you and that will create fewer teachers.

But it is also the head that will suffer in any negative ofsted inspection. So if you are being asked to do the impossible it is time to say no! But surely the first responsibility is to turn up on time. In this particular case we don't know why the teacher is regularly late but something somewhere is wrong.

It is also possibly naive of you (I wouldn't normally use this term but it is your language) to assume the normal rules of industry are so much better. Ask the sacked workers of P&O and others who have been sacked and replaced.

I didn't even know detention in y13 was a thing?

I wouldn’t ring because you’ll probably be accused of being argumentative, the conversation won’t go as planned.

I’d send an email as it’ll be better to get your point across and you can read and tweak before you press send. Also an email is more likely to be taken more seriously than a phone call where words can’t be proven.
I’m going from past experience. Good luck.

I keep seeing this on this thread. At my friend's DS's school he went into the sixth form after doing his GCSES and was given a half hour detention on the very first day for being late. I couldn't believe it when she told me but he confirmed it. I think it's more likely when they stay at the same school for sixth form.

You don't know why the teacher was late! It is very likely that they were trying to sort out another child or were grabbed by another teacher rather than not being bothered to return from their break on time!!!
Give your head a wobble.