Can we talk about the aging population?

[Kendodd]

Anyone know much?
I don't see much serious discussion in politics about this and the challenges it will create. Policy just seems to be more of the same ignoring the fact society will fundamentally change and lots of the numbers just won't add up anymore (elder care, healthcare etc) Having said that I think we are quite well placed in the UK to cope being open to immigration from higher birthrate countries. Plus we will have a heads up watching how low birthrate and low immigration countries in Asia cope and what they do right or wrong.

Overall, I think, lower numbers of people are good for the planet, if predictions are even correct, people across the world might decide to just start birthing their own care workers though and upend the current trajectory. Anyway I don't think we should continue to ignore it's challenges.

Hmm. I dint buy into the conspiracy theory around Covid.

But I think you need to read around covid and LC. The decrease if life expectancy and the increase if disability. The higher risk of dementia, early on. The efficacy (or not) of vaccines etc….

I personally think that covid and then climate change will put a huge spanner in the works and will heavily influence what we can and can’t do re elderly people.
Incl population getting used to the idea of not treating older people (like a Japan), assisted suicide etc….

Which is already happening with doctors and nurses btw…..

Yes it usually does. Your home is an assist. If a spouse still lives there there are slightly different rule. Each council seems to approach the rules differently. People sell their homes to fund care homes and there's often very little left afterwards.

One thing we can all do is make a Health and Welfare Power of Attorney, with added instructions as to your wishes.

Dh and I have added a paragraph to ours which says, ‘If I should develop dementia, or any other condition where I am unable both to care for myself, and speak (with full mental capacity) for myself, then I emphatically do not want any life-saving or life-prolonging treatment. I ask for palliative care only.’

Dds (who will have P of A) have also been made well aware of our wishes. They know all too well what we’ve been through with dementia in both my DM and FiL.

I'm not an immigrant hater. I was merely describing the demographic who are reported to be entering. I've googled and all the sources state that the majority of migrants are male and young adult age. I never said that others don't migrate here. If the majority were elderly women I'd have stated that, but they're not. Are people not allowed to state facts now?

Incl population getting used to the idea of not treating older people (like a Japan

What do you mean by like a Japan?

Interesting. You’ve only started saying this when another poster has. Your first reply to me was about asylum seekers and seemed to indicate you agreed with my interpretation of your post.
I don’t know about all immigrants. I do know ‘young men’ is used often to criticise asylum seekers. Anyway, enough derailing into side issues. I won’t be replying again.

More ND people need to be supported into paid employment. We're perfectly capable of working, but can often only manage part time or reduced working hours, yet there's very little out there to help us. Something is better than nothing and would reduce the benefits bill in any case. Only 20% of autistic people are in work and that majority of ND people are capable of work and do not have high care needs. They just need adjustments and some support and adequate rest and recovery periods.*

Absolutely, I'm autistic and have plenty to offer the work place but whenever I do manage to get a job I get bullied and mocked and eventually sacked for not fitting the box.

I've been a housewife for 24 years and I don't suppose that will ever change.
I'd love to have had the opportunity to contribute to society but society picks and chooses who can work for them and then moans too many people don't pay taxes or that they have to pay benefits from their taxes to the people they won't employ 🤷‍♀️

I know, but it still means you suffer until your body gives up. There is no dignity in that. Just give them a drug to pass away why wait until they have starved to death or the infection finally takes over and ends their life hours later.

I totally agree that this also needs to be part of the conversation. The numbers of pupils with significant medical care needs and short life expectancy in schools is increasing rapidly. And there is evidence that maternal age and IVF are risk factors.

If we are talking about who gets and doesn't get medical treatment it needs to be across all age groups.

Yes, who is going to look after the adults with severe SEN when their parents die if there is already a struggle to look after OAPs?

If it is truly from older mothers and IVF pregnancies then that needs to be spoken about.

Maybe with the talk about not extending life for the elderly we should talk about not extending fertility for mothers in their 40's or will that touch a nerve?

Another factor, which I can see as I work in childcare, is that nobody wants to work in childcare anymore. People are leaving and working at home or in supermarkets. If there is a new baby boom, possible with a higher number of children with SEN, then who will be looking after these children?

I think, when it comes down to it, that's easier said than done, and it's our instinct to cling to life. I remember hearing on R4 years ago that when it's life or death, people abandon their own children to save themselves, so forceful is the drive to survive .
I also remember polling of Tory party members (this isn't a dig at Tory members btw, I'm sure the same would apply to others) saying most would see their own adult children lose their livelihoods for brexit. As much as we might like to believe it true, actually we don't act or vote for the benefit of further generations. Just look at ULEZ or climate change policy.

If it is truly from older mothers and IVF pregnancies then that needs to be spoken about.

I thought it was linked to fathers age?

Yes I thought paternal age was more strongly linked to autism. Maternal age may be linked to other disabilities.

I think also more prevalent in women under 25

Also when discussing immigration the landscape will be very different, lots of western countries will be fighting for them too

i* *think this too. That asylum seekers will become a sought after resource to prop up the status quo. Under the current system asylum seekers cannot work when many do want to contribute. They should be given a decision faster and then they will become part of the work force.

i m anti euthanasia. I think it would be open to abuse. Elders being coerced so as not be a burden.

other countries such as Belgium or the Netherlands have laws similar to that, where people who are not on an end of life pathway can chose ‘assisted suicide’)

Contrary to popular belief, 'assisted suicide' is very difficult to access in The Netherlands.

I think encouraging those in their 60s and 70s to maintain their health for longer will come before encouraging people to have more babies.
I'm 60and still work full time, run5k twice a week, have sole care of a 15yo, practice martial arts, gardening, volunteer as a parish Councilor etc
Yet so many 60yos give up on exercise, which inevitably leads to a faster deterioration. Get coronary heart disease, become obese etc.
Certainly some people are less able at 60 but there is much more we can all do as individuals.

You go down a very, very dangerous path if you think that the right to life should be curtailed for certain groups. Who is useful? Who is a burden?
That is eugenics.

I think the problem is that the motivation for preventative healthcare is very, very difficult. If you aren't already being affected by something, it is difficult to motivate yourself into doing something just in case. That's partly why we have an obesity crisis. People know what to do, they just don't do it, or don't stick to it. Me included. I do a lot of exercise, but I know I need to do more weight bearing exercise to protect my bones. I can always do it tomorrow, so don't do it today. Its difficult. I agree we will end up with more people living for longer in ill health in the future. When children under 11 have type 2 diabetes, chances are they will unfortunately not live to 80, but they may well end up physically disabled for a lot of their adult life.

I'm not so sure asylum seekers will start to become valued. I think plenty of people would rather have nobody to care for them/pick fruit/drive buses/empty bins than an immigrant coming here.

Health span is 65yo so you are doing very well in being as fit as that.

I love preventative medicine but please remember that tte biggest detriment of health is socio economic.
If we want people to live healthier lives fir longer, what we need to tackle is poverty first.

@Kendodd yes I’m sure they would prefer no services rather than more black/ brown faces.

I imagine other countries will do it first but hopefully the U.K. will catch on before that and get in first/ early.

Euthanasia will really help take pressure off the NHS, care homes and families. It's the right thing to legalise as it gives people choice. Why should the state stop people who want to be put out of their misery, so cruel.

Is it a true free choice? How will people be protected from coercion?