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Original poster

Can we talk about the aging population?

237 replies

Kendodd · 03/10/2023 20:57

Anyone know much?
I don't see much serious discussion in politics about this and the challenges it will create. Policy just seems to be more of the same ignoring the fact society will fundamentally change and lots of the numbers just won't add up anymore (elder care, healthcare etc) Having said that I think we are quite well placed in the UK to cope being open to immigration from higher birthrate countries. Plus we will have a heads up watching how low birthrate and low immigration countries in Asia cope and what they do right or wrong.

Overall, I think, lower numbers of people are good for the planet, if predictions are even correct, people across the world might decide to just start birthing their own care workers though and upend the current trajectory. Anyway I don't think we should continue to ignore it's challenges.

OP posts:
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OppsUpsSide · 03/10/2023 21:36

Your reply hints at the support it could garner.

MollyMarples · 03/10/2023 21:36

parameciumparty · 03/10/2023 21:10

Encourage people to have more children? They'll need to fix the housing crisis and totally unaffordable childcare situation then. Any sensible government needs to support policies which help families, but our government is insane and operating at primary school levels of behaviour and intellect since they came in.

We won’t have a housing crisis when the 6 million spare bedrooms owned by the over 60s are put back into actual housing stock instead of empty stock.

everythingisgoingup · 03/10/2023 21:42

This has been coming for decades but no government will address it as it is not a vote winner to point out there are more older than younger people and therefore less productive people (tax payers) to foot the bills.

When Teresa May tried to address it, they called it the dementia tax and she lost votes.

A healthy society consists of all ages not skewed to one age group 😞

Original poster
Kendodd · 03/10/2023 21:44

everythingisgoingup · 03/10/2023 21:42

This has been coming for decades but no government will address it as it is not a vote winner to point out there are more older than younger people and therefore less productive people (tax payers) to foot the bills.

When Teresa May tried to address it, they called it the dementia tax and she lost votes.

A healthy society consists of all ages not skewed to one age group 😞

I think another issue is that large number of elderly people are a very powerful voting block and (as we have seen) vote for their own interests. I say all this as an older person.

OP posts:
KitCatKitty · 03/10/2023 21:45

cardibach · 03/10/2023 21:14

Oh great. Someone who has a)swallowed the nonsense about asylum seekers all being male and b)thinks asylum is more than a fraction of immigration.

Show quote history

Nobody except you mentioned asylum seekers 🤨

Besides, it is the truth that the majority of immigrants are male (and especially immigrants who arrive through means such as small boats where almost 90% are male). Idk why you have to be snarky and try and deny this when it's literally the truth.

panelbottle · 03/10/2023 21:45

Without accusations of ageism unlikely.

Obviously it's fantastic but the fact no gov has prepped for it is worrying. And so many seem unaware thinking population growth is to do with loads of babies.

Overall, I think, lower numbers of people are good for the planet,

yes but are fewer young people in that mix a good thing.

In the UK there were 5 workers to 1 pensioner in the 60s, now it's 1:3 & forecasted soon to be 1:2, obviously this isn't sustainable. We already have more over 65 yr olds than under 15 yr olds & immigration isn't particularly popular

panelbottle · 03/10/2023 21:47

It also solves the housing issue.

The UK doesn't have enough suitable housing

www.pbctoday.co.uk/news/planning-construction-news/senior-living-housing-shortage-exposes-scale-uk-housing-crisis/116689/

panelbottle · 03/10/2023 21:48

It needs workers as its too old to work. It needs people growing food, picking food, processing gas and getting it to your home, keeping the water and sewage system running, keeping the transport network going, making, Paying the taxes that keep healthcare and pensions being paid.

exactly

everythingisgoingup · 03/10/2023 21:49

Kendodd younger people have little interest or desire to engage in voting & recent changes to voting system make it worse (having to carry ID).

Agree people tend to vote for their own interests and triple lock 😉

panelbottle · 03/10/2023 21:50

The planet needs fewer people not more. That’s what we’ve got to adapt to.

Adapting to fewer people with a demographic shift is going to be quite an adjustment though.

StarDolphins · 03/10/2023 21:50

parameciumparty · 03/10/2023 21:16

What are the statistics then? The asylum seekers are mostly male from what I understand. Is that not true?

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This is what I believe (& see) to be true in my area.

panelbottle · 03/10/2023 21:51

When Teresa May tried to address it, they called it the dementia tax and she lost votes.

This was quite a good initiative but yep everyone hated it.

cardibach · 03/10/2023 21:52

KitCatKitty · 03/10/2023 21:45

Nobody except you mentioned asylum seekers 🤨

Besides, it is the truth that the majority of immigrants are male (and especially immigrants who arrive through means such as small boats where almost 90% are male). Idk why you have to be snarky and try and deny this when it's literally the truth.

Show quote history

And who did you think was being referred to as ‘all those young men’?
it was completely obvious - and confirmed by the poster in a reply to me

CuteCillian · 03/10/2023 21:53

I'm hoping that, by the time I need it, a robot will be able do my daily ablutions. Got to be better than forcing a younger person to work as a carer if they have no desire to work in that industry.

Caffeinequeen91 · 03/10/2023 21:56

I have an elderly relative being kept alive in hospital and I’m not entirely sure why this is thought to be a good thing. The relative has dementia and I’m not sure being pumped full of antibiotics and painkillers is in their best interests. But the other relatives with POA want to keep them alive forever.

I hope assisted dying is legal here when I’m a grand old age.

parameciumparty · 03/10/2023 21:57

Kendodd · 03/10/2023 21:32

Because society is more than just its elderly and needs more than just care workers to survive. I can't believe I have to explain that to somebody.

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I'm autistic so thanks for making me feel stupid which I'm actually not.

Towdalinenow · 03/10/2023 22:01

Not true that we’re not planning for it.

The “Healthy Ageing Challenge” is a UKRI programme / grant fund is a core part of the government’s industrial strategy which is the national framework for govt investment in innovation.

The aim is to get people living healthier older years, to improve quality of life and reduce financial burden on society.

If you have an innovative idea which supports healthy ageing … now is a good time to seek investment.

Original poster
Kendodd · 03/10/2023 22:02

Towdalinenow · 03/10/2023 22:01

Not true that we’re not planning for it.

The “Healthy Ageing Challenge” is a UKRI programme / grant fund is a core part of the government’s industrial strategy which is the national framework for govt investment in innovation.

The aim is to get people living healthier older years, to improve quality of life and reduce financial burden on society.

If you have an innovative idea which supports healthy ageing … now is a good time to seek investment.

Edited

Do you have a link for that?

OP posts:
panelbottle · 03/10/2023 22:05

I think another issue is that large number of elderly people are a very powerful voting block and (as we have seen) vote for their own interests. I say all this as an older person.

more young people will migrate. We have got low wages, high taxes, high col & poor services so more HCPs etc will be off.

Towdalinenow · 03/10/2023 22:05

@Kendodd google UKRI and healthy ageing challenge. You’ll see lots of projects that have been funded …probably also details of future competitions for funding

This is actually a huge economic opportunity for us… if we develop good and services which can be exported around the world, there is growth opportunities and job’s associated with healthy ageing. It’s not all doom and gloom!

AluckyEllie · 03/10/2023 22:08

The problem isn’t only workers etc- imagine when a large proportion of the population are drawing their pension. How will the country finance it, when you’ve got so many more people claiming than paying in. Each government seems so short sighted, trying to keep todays voters happy rather than planning ahead for 10/20 years time when it won’t be their problem. The environmental policies are a great example of this- the aging population will be another.

panelbottle · 03/10/2023 22:08

whilst life expectancy has increased healthy life expectancy has stagnated

Original poster
Kendodd · 03/10/2023 22:08

I wonder if we'll have care homes were the 'young' old people look after the 'old' old people with the expectation that the next generation of old people will move in to look after them? I also think keeping extremally old people with multiple health conditions and no hope of recovery alive at all costs will become unsustainable. Although I think this is morally questionable anyway even with all the money and care staff in the world.

OP posts:
Flaskfan · 03/10/2023 22:08

My mum would have been a healthy, fit old person; doing bits of charity work and pottering about; some unpaid childcare. But then dementia made her doubly incontinent and unable to remember her own name.

And as for multi generation living, who does the burden of care fall on then? Not sure my son is going to want to wipe my arse, when the time comes. I wouldn't want him to either. Just give us the choice to die. I have many elderly relatives. 80 is my absolute limit. And only then, if I've got enough pension to spend my 70s mildly sozzled.

panelbottle · 03/10/2023 22:11

The problem isn’t only workers etc- imagine when a large proportion of the population are drawing their pension. How will the country finance it,

It's crazy, pension costs will be more than education. policing & defence! And younger people will have to work a lot longer as pension ages will move out.