"I don't care if you're sorry!"

[EveSix]

DP, when stressed, has a particularly arsey habit of, when pulling the DC up on something, and they say "Sorry," he'll curtly say "I don't care if you're sorry!" followed up with something like "What matters is that you don't do it again," or "That's what you said last time," or similar. He also shuts down any attempt at explaining, brushing it off as 'excuses'. This will be over something really minor like leaving crumbs on a worktop or not pushing bikes fully under the lean to bikeshed.

Our DC are well behaved, thoughtful and don't do things out of spite or carelessness. Their "Sorry" is genuine and sincere, never said in a 'whatever' kind of way. When he does this, I genuinely dislike him. It's like he is taking away the dignity of the DC of being able to try to put things right.

If they didn't say sorry, they'd be pulled up on that instead.

If they get upset, he'll say something really weird like "I'm sorry you're upset, but you shouldn't have done X in the first place." WhoTF follows a 'sorry' with a 'but'!?

I've tried to explain that it's a shitty way of expressing his irritation, and that he needs to be open to someone's apology if he's going to raise a grievance, but he has a complete blind spot about it, despite it being his children.

He is capable of doing this in a more neutral way normally, but when in a rush or otherwise under pressure, seems to lose the capacity to do it without some kind of weird rank-pulling.

Can anyone suggest a better way of explaining this to him? I am convinced I'm right about this, but equally, if you think DP hasn't done anything wrong, please explain how this is fine.

Their father or their mother?

In the case, the dad doesn’t seem that keen on the ‘I’m sorry’ line.

I would suggest that I have more emotional intelligence because I know the difference between a sincere apology with the changed behaviour behind it, a sincere apology with good intentions, and an apology that is cursory and not worth the air used to express it.

The reality is sometimes people we live with don’t share our priorities, or place the same value on things. Being able to confront that … whilst still maintaining the good relationship is the thing.
the DP is an idiot to extract a cursory apology for something minor. If the bike thing is hurting his feelings, he needs to examine why it’s so upsetting to him.
Which isn’t to say the bikes shouldn’t be put away, or the rooms tidied, or the crumbs wiped off the table, but if your kids have to apologize about something, or many things, every single day maybe the problem is you and not them.

Thank you for your responses, all. Interesting that this doesn't outrage people to the extent that it upsets me. I'm a primary school teacher and I hear empty sorries for a whole gamut of misdemeanours ranging from mild to downright nasty, and 'excuses' all day long, but would never talk to a child like I feel DP does in the situations I described in my OP. It just feels really mean.

Thank you MyCuteDog for your staunch support, Goldbar for your sage advice (I've noticed and appreciated your insights on other threads too) and whoever else makes me think I'm not being too soft. To whomever suggested that "the way things are" with me is that sorry = everything is forgotten; well, I don't hold grudges and accept that my parenting role includes issuing the same instructions on repeat and no hard feelings, especially not at the expense of my DC's self-esteem, so maybe you're half right. I do generally just ask them to crack on and sort out whatever it is I feel like they ought to have done, and it doesn't necessitate an apology, but being nice kids, they say it anyway, the job gets done and everyone still feels OK about themselves.

I'd start telling your primary school kids that sorry only means sorry if they mean it!

I tell my pupils that and were a send school.

If you're saying sorry you recognise you need to change your behaviour. Or it's just a word that has no meaning.

Perhaps, my guess is that he wants to get the apology so that he can discard it like a soiled handkerchief.
Well it won’t be long before one of them says “Hey why don’t we stop this charade where I pretend I’m sorry so that you can act the arse? I’m not sorry.”

ItsGettingWeird, yep, that's part of the sorry-conversation in school, but I would never be as dismissive about it as DP is with our own DC, and tell a pupil "I don't care if you're sorry!" which is the issue I have. In fact, when there is an apology to be made between pupils, I often talk about whether to and how to accept apologies graciously, and what to do if you feel an apology is not sincere. It certainly doesn't involve shutting down the child making the apology.

Theresa, "Perhaps, my guess is that he wants to get the apology so that he can discard it like a soiled handkerchief.", yes, it feels like that! He did it to DC2 (10) this morning over something mildly annoying, and I just wanted to take them by the hand and leave the house for the day; it was just dripping with disapproval.

after I've tripped over a bike that hasn't been put away properly, not for the first time, i don't take a throw-away "sorry" either.

Sorry doesn't mean now everything is alright. Sorry must mean something.

A parent who makes the house feel as though it is dripping with disapproval is one you would avoid as an adult.

He sounds too hard IMO. Reminding your kids about crumbs and bikes is just life- annoying but not something to blow up over and reject apologies.

I'm with you OP, your DP's behaviour would really wind me up! It's such a self-righteous, pompous way of dealing with minor irritations, and seems designed to put the child in their place and make them feel shit rather than just change their behaviour. Some of the other examples on this thread are pretty awful too, like "Sorry isn't enough, I need to know why you did [x minor thing]".

I think it's much more healthy to bring children up in an atmosphere of give and take where we accept that while we should try and change behaviour that's annoying to others, all of us make mistakes, parents too, and we can all apologise. What if one day your DH forgot to do something that he'd promised to do for your DC, or broke something. How would he feel if they turned round and said "I don't care if you're sorry, sorry doesn't mean anything"?

He's right. They're not sorry if they keep doing it.

So if everyone knows they’re not sorry, why does he choose to make such a song and dance about it? To quote a previous poster “Explain to me why you did that, you can’t be very bright if you don’t know why?”

@EveSix . You are right. The "crimes" in this case aren't worth the negative and dismissive atmosphere created by his responses. You have to play the long game when parenting imo, rather than focusing on every little thing. Hopefully your kids won't still be leaving mess around when they reach adulthood, but the more important question is whether they will still have a strong and fun relationship with their dad.

I am surprised at how clear cut 'wrong-doing' is to some of us. I sometimes make repeat-mistakes because I'm distracted or I forget a particular instruction. When I do, if anything, I'm more sorry and would feel terrible if it was suggested that I wasn't sorry and that my repeat mistake was somehow indicative of not caring.

It's the same with the DC, they may have been pulled up on something before, or maybe it's a 'fresh' error; I don't automatically assume that this will be the last time it happens, because I know we all forget or do / forget to do things absentmindedly. It's the "I don't care..." bit that sucks so bad.

It is possible to express irritation or frustration without tearing down the other person.

I agree OP. My parents were brilliant, I remember once when I dropped a vase once, one that my father had inherited from his beloved mum. She died when he was young, as did his dad so the vase was precious to him.

Anyway, I dropped the vase and it smashed. I felt mortified but my father simply accepted my apology, explaining that accidents happen.

I have so much respect for him. He was able to put his initial feelings aside and appreciate that I was a nice child and would never have done that on purpose.

The way your DH is speaking to your children is really dismissive. My husband can be similar and I hate that about him. All you can do is keep letting him know how you feel and validate your children's feelings.

Crumbs on worktops is a crazy thing to get worked up over.

You see I believe for an off thing, a Sorry should be accepted Wo a second thought (like the vase example from @Hummingbird233 ).

I think children who don’t clear crumbs and then go on ‘explaining’ are looking fir excuses, esp when there is ALWAYS a good reason why it hasn’t been done.
But they are simply being children, children that need to be parented,
like any other child.

I don’t think that not accepting those ‘excuses’ or telling the child Sorry isn’t enough is demeaning. It’s nit a personal attack (like let’s say ‘you are really stupid. Why haven’t you done this? It’s not that hard!’). As others have pointed out, it is a fact that sorry Wo changes (esp when it happens regularly rather than a two or three discrete occasions - which is your example here) isn’t enough. Too many adults seem to think it will be enough to get them out if hot waters too.

I personally don’t think his way of dealing with the issue is the best but I can really see his point.

Fwiw as an adult, I have the tendency of over explaining (I’m sure some psychologist would say childhood trauma blabla). It has put me in hot waters at work quite a few times because people only see excuses. It’s not a good thing for them to learn.

All this ‘not accepting excuses, sorry isn’t good enough’ over trivial stuff - where people think that’s appropriate, is that how you behave in adult relationships too? Do you not just have a bit of give and take, rather than lecturing all the time?

I’m a bit untidy, DH will lose his temper sometimes but then apologise, the kids can be a bit of a pain sometimes. We all rub along despite our imperfections. If I accidentally do something DH has asked me not to do, he gets a bit irritated, I apologise, but he doesn’t start interrogating me on why I did it or saying ‘I don’t care if you’re sorry’. Because that would be twattish behaviour.

Obviously the parent-child relationship is a bit different but the similarity is that you don’t need to lecture and make a big deal of every minor annoyance, and you try and apologise when you’re in the wrong yourself.

Your understanding of the variance in sincerity of apologies is on point. But your unnecessary jumping on my post is less so.

I agree with the rest of your post. I really dislike excessive apologising. I don’t expect anyone, especially not children, to apologise for minor errors constantly. Sometimes the correct response is just “ok, I understand” if asked not to do something again. Which is what I try to teach my child, to understand the scenario and react accordingly.

I detest when children are coerced into apologies they don’t mean or even worse, they don’t even understand why or what they’re apologising for. The words mean nothing without understanding. Plenty of adults are walking around thinking “I’m sorry” is a two word magical fix all.

@SemperIdem . I agree. I don't actually think a response is called for in these situations beyond acknowledgement of what the parent has said. The parent says, "please remember to put your bike away properly so it doesn't get rusty" or "let's not leave crumbs on the side please, try to keep the kitchen tidy". I wouldn't expect a heartfelt apology in these circumstances, just some acknowledgement that I have been heard. If there was a deliberate pattern of not being bothered to clean up, then I might get a bit annoyed, but not if they're just forgetting now and then.