"I don't care if you're sorry!"

[EveSix]

DP, when stressed, has a particularly arsey habit of, when pulling the DC up on something, and they say "Sorry," he'll curtly say "I don't care if you're sorry!" followed up with something like "What matters is that you don't do it again," or "That's what you said last time," or similar. He also shuts down any attempt at explaining, brushing it off as 'excuses'. This will be over something really minor like leaving crumbs on a worktop or not pushing bikes fully under the lean to bikeshed.

Our DC are well behaved, thoughtful and don't do things out of spite or carelessness. Their "Sorry" is genuine and sincere, never said in a 'whatever' kind of way. When he does this, I genuinely dislike him. It's like he is taking away the dignity of the DC of being able to try to put things right.

If they didn't say sorry, they'd be pulled up on that instead.

If they get upset, he'll say something really weird like "I'm sorry you're upset, but you shouldn't have done X in the first place." WhoTF follows a 'sorry' with a 'but'!?

I've tried to explain that it's a shitty way of expressing his irritation, and that he needs to be open to someone's apology if he's going to raise a grievance, but he has a complete blind spot about it, despite it being his children.

He is capable of doing this in a more neutral way normally, but when in a rush or otherwise under pressure, seems to lose the capacity to do it without some kind of weird rank-pulling.

Can anyone suggest a better way of explaining this to him? I am convinced I'm right about this, but equally, if you think DP hasn't done anything wrong, please explain how this is fine.

Another who says it all the time.

And you aren't sorry the 2nd, 3rd etc time you do something because if you were genuinely sorry the first time you wouldn't do it again!

I don't get your problem with @OnAFrolicOfMyOwn . Your replies are a bit ridiculous

They said they'd impose consequences on a child who repeatedly did the same thing and just kept . They have never once talked about sanctions on an adult. Now you are implying they are abusive and have never been in a relationship. I don't get your point

If they kept doing it, I'd tell them the next time, the bike would be going on eBay, and I'd stick to that.

The thing to say is

" I accept your apology because I believe you didn't mean to..( whatever they did) ... AND ( not but) I'd also like you to make every effort to not do it again as when you do this it makes me ... ( whatever effect the behaviour has on you and how it makes you feel etc)

That is completely different feel to what he is saying now but effectively says the same thing . Children often forget the specifics of what is said to them by parents but rarely forget how it made them feel.

It strikes me that getting rid of the bike would not be an unreasonable thing to do to a child, if they repeatedly, after warning, showed they couldn't look after it properly. Sell the bike and put the money into their savings account.

I'm married, been with my husband over 20 years.

Agree with him. Being repeatedly sorry doesn't matter. Not doing the same thing again matters.

Is it? I don't think that's strange

@OnAFrolicOfMyOwn clearly said they'd impose consequences on the child who kept doing something. Obviously that's not leaving the child, it's normal punishments/consequences on children e.g. no going out on your bike because you don't put it away.

Why are you so focused on how Frolic behaves with adults? We've had two bloody pages of posts on it FFS. It's not relevant and has only been repeatedly bought up by you

I start the conversation by asking ‘why did you/ didn’t you do that?’
Child mumbles ‘sorry’.
I say ‘no, “Sorry” isn’t a meaningful answer to my question. I asked why you did/ didn’t do that.’
Child ‘Dunno’.
Me ‘OK, try thinking about that carefully. People who don’t know why they do things are not very bright. I’m genuinely interested to know why you don’t think (x, y, z family rule) applies to you.

Getting them really to engage with the behaviour rather than just being mindlessly sloppy really does help in the long term.

Totally shitty way to talk to kids. Presumably from his own upbringing and he hasn't examined it. I If he doesn't stop it (and you don't think it's a sign of other shittiness and you should get rid) tell kids you don't agree with it, you don't like the way he tallks to them and you are sorry it's happening.

How did you react on the day your children started to say “I won’t apologize because it gets thrown back in my face. If you’re upset you’ll have to deal with that alone.”

Why do you ask that question when you know perfectly well there is no acceptable answer to you? It’s a precursor to letting your child know you find them defective in some way.

Had to delete myself as getting upset about this issue. So depressing how children are treated in our society.

I say that sometimes to DD. Not the I don't care part, i tell her I don't need an apology I need her to do x or stop doing y so we don't end up in the same situation again and again.

I agree with your DH about the fact saying Sorry is meaningless Wo a change in behaviour. I think the way we teach children to say Sorry often leads them to think that saying that magic word is enough tbh. And I have to say @EveSix , you make me think that this would be the way things go with you - they say sorry and everything is forgotten about.

However, we are talking about children here and bread crumbs/bikes.
It’s like tidying up their bedroom. You might tell them every week or several times a week they need to do, it doesn’t mean they will!
Shouting doesn’t help either tbh.

What works is calling them to tidy up the crumbs/bike every single time and to ask them to do it as they should have done in the first place. I would just have said ‘dc1! Crumbs!!’ No telling them off, no screaming etc..l
And I have to say, if they had said sorry, I’d probably have answered like your DH!
This works well with children and teens alike.

Ah, that rather strange poster has gone. For anyone interested, I have a perfectly normal marriage, where we resolve disagreements by discussing them, as adults usually do.

Not at all. If the child can give a reason, that’s the end of it. Here are a few that I’ve been happy to accept:
’I was desperate for the loo and didn’t have time to….’
’There was a huge spider in the bathroom…’
’Dad told me to do it like that’

There’s no point asking an open question if there is no acceptable answer. You have made a bizarre and unpleasant assumption about me. I’ll keep my assumptions about you to myself.

Do you really go through such convoluted conversations?

Just ask them to do it!
At worst, my answer to the dcs has been ‘because we are a team and everyone helps to keep the house tidy’ That’s it.
Complex, convoluted explanations just get drowned out in my experience.

followed up with something like "What matters is that you don't do it again," or "That's what you said last time," or similar.

Our DC are well behaved, thoughtful and don't do things out of spite or carelessness. Their "Sorry" is genuine and sincere,

Well tbh if they keep doing it and every time just say sorry and then do it again and again, the sorry isn't sincere, it is a bit meaningless. If you're actually sorry, you put effort in to not doing it again.

This OP.

Exactly, the DH should just tell them to do it, rather the drama of requiring their contrition. None of the examples in my mind deserve that- although they do need to be fixed.