"I don't care if you're sorry!"

[EveSix]

DP, when stressed, has a particularly arsey habit of, when pulling the DC up on something, and they say "Sorry," he'll curtly say "I don't care if you're sorry!" followed up with something like "What matters is that you don't do it again," or "That's what you said last time," or similar. He also shuts down any attempt at explaining, brushing it off as 'excuses'. This will be over something really minor like leaving crumbs on a worktop or not pushing bikes fully under the lean to bikeshed.

Our DC are well behaved, thoughtful and don't do things out of spite or carelessness. Their "Sorry" is genuine and sincere, never said in a 'whatever' kind of way. When he does this, I genuinely dislike him. It's like he is taking away the dignity of the DC of being able to try to put things right.

If they didn't say sorry, they'd be pulled up on that instead.

If they get upset, he'll say something really weird like "I'm sorry you're upset, but you shouldn't have done X in the first place." WhoTF follows a 'sorry' with a 'but'!?

I've tried to explain that it's a shitty way of expressing his irritation, and that he needs to be open to someone's apology if he's going to raise a grievance, but he has a complete blind spot about it, despite it being his children.

He is capable of doing this in a more neutral way normally, but when in a rush or otherwise under pressure, seems to lose the capacity to do it without some kind of weird rank-pulling.

Can anyone suggest a better way of explaining this to him? I am convinced I'm right about this, but equally, if you think DP hasn't done anything wrong, please explain how this is fine.

Why should they be sorry about stuff that is so ridiculously minor?

@LoserWinner but there is also the fact that your dc might well not be very bright if they can’t answer that question…. (Or they can but won’t tell you they can’t be botheredM). Esp when they are out in the spot like this. Not sure that’s good either!

The reality is that, in most cases, children don’t <insert activity like tidy their bedroom, clean crumbs etc…> because it’s not on the top of their priority list and they dint care. They haven’t own that responsibility yet. And tbh, it won’t happen fir a long time like when they go to Uni

And if i had an inkling that something was genuinely stopping the child, I’d start with asking them if they have issues with, eg put their bike in the shed. Not in an accusatory way, which ‘why didn’t you….’ is.

Why are there so many mean parents around? Why is treating kids like second class citizens considered OK? It's like there's a culture of embedded child verbal abuse that is considered totally fine. People just take their own unowned crap out on their kids instead of treating them with kindness, love and respect. It's phenomenally depressing.

In this case, why do they say Sorry?

They must have learnt this is the appropriate answer somehow….

I'm very glad that we and our DC could and can say sorry, mean it , and have it accepted. DC are now nice adults with their own polite DC.

If parents have created a family where saying sorry is meaningless that is completely on them and completely sad.

Part of being a functioning adult is accepting that others might have different priorities and what is minor to you might be annoying to someone else. It's not unreasonable to expect children to learn this by keeping to some house rules about where and how stuff is stored, but by the same token, the DH should be teaching them how to accept an apology in a gracious way. Otherwise the message they will take away is that there's no point in apologising because they get shouted at for doing so.

You sound like a great mum OP so at least their self esteem will remain in tact instead of having two parents getting idiotic and self righteous about crumbs on a table. They will end up thinking their dad is a massive arse and won't want to see him much when they grow up and get to escape him so at least there is a natural consequence to his behaviour. His loss.

Tbh children (and a lot of adults) also need to learn that a sorry doesn't fix everything, definitely not instantly. The sheer bewilderment that someone else won't right away get over their hurt(emotional or physical) or they're still crying. "But I said sorry Miss".

I dint think in this case, there is any apology to accept.

Saying sorry again and again for the same thing and not changing your behaviour isn’t being sorry. Why should one ever ‘graciously accept the apology’ when it’s clearly made to basically shut you up?

What the OP is talking about isn’t a case where you apologise. It’s a case when a child needs to learn and a parent needs to parent. I’m nit expecting a child to apologise fur being a child basically (because not cleaning bread crumbs ish just that - bring a child)

Absolutely.

My (ex) friends Dd would hit and be rude to ds and thought saying sorry after made it ok.

She then believed it so much she'd do it in school and to her friends. By secondary she was a mess because repeatedly breaking the rules and saying sorry no longer cut it.

Her mum could only ever say "but she said sorry" as if this was ok.

The poor girl stood no chance because she genuinely believed the rules didn't apply as long as you said sorry for breaking them.

I don’t throw it back in their face, I accept the apology. I just don’t tell them it is ok, when it is not.

My child is 8, but I would hope they won’t grow up to have the same lack of emotional intelligence you seem to have.

I agree with your dh - sorry is a pointless phrase if it's not the first time they've exhibited the behaviour they're apologising for.
In fact, I'd get cross the other way round - I'd get cross at the party accepting a completely futile 'sorry' however politely it's delivered.

My starting point with this would be that I want my children to be parented positively, not negatively. He is parenting them in a very negative way.

He is dealing with the situation in a way which creates more negativity and ill-feeling than the original incident. Ideally, incidents like this would end with everyone feeling good about themselves. I'd ask him to think about ways he could resolve the situation that would lead to this outcome.

My DC are probably younger than yours but I just accept I'm going to have to say something 1000 times before it properly goes in. What I do in the meantime is inconvenience my DC - if shoes are left on the floor, laundry isn't put in the laundry bin, plates aren't put next to the dishwasher, then I call my DC away from playing or watching TV to sort it out. And afterwards I say, 'thank you for doing X. When you do X, I really appreciate it because it's hard work to keep our house tidy and so we all need to help. Maybe next time you could remember without being asked.' And then next time comes along, and sometimes DC remembers and sometimes DC doesn't.

I'm afraid I would have trouble living with someone who created a bad atmosphere over little things.

Yeah, I would be extremely angry with someone who spoke this way to my children (even if they are the other parent).

It’s a disproportionate response to a very minor misdemeanour. What will the response be when the children actually do something bad?

Holy. Cow.

Of all the fucked up things I’ve read in MN, this has to be top 10.

Who the hell are you to comment on the entirety of society and the children it’s raising? Uber Parent UK of 2023? Depressing? How children are “treated”??

If this were a comment about, oh I don’t know, police strip searching young girls on their period at school without a responsible adult present - you could say it’s depressing how some children are treated in society today. But not accepting a hollow apology about crumbs on worktops or bikes left in the rain? Fuck me. I’d be surprised if the actual Princes and Princesses of this country are treated that deferentially.

"Of all the fucked up things I’ve read in MN, this has to be top 10."

I am honoured to be in your Top 10! @Raincloudsonasunnyday :) :)

And the thinking that writing a note saying 'Dear Miss, I am sorry if you felt that I was being rude in walking past you yesterday' will instantly get them out of detention (if not Suspension) for barging through a member of staff and walloping them in the face with a backpack in the process on the bus.

No, sorry doesn't cut it. Especially not when the half arsed apology is 'because you're clearly stupid and imagined it but I'm hoping I can get the Head to say I can go to Prom now I've done this'.

Oh, I say that all the time. Actually, I say, "that's fine, being sorry is fine but now you need to change your behaviour". I don't like whinging or whining, or behaving pitifully - I don't need an outpouring of guilt and rumination - I just need better, well, whatever it is.

Next time I am going to try for the number one spot. Purely out of professional pride :)

His delivery is off, but I do agree with the sentiment. I always tell the kids sorry is meaningless if the behaviour doesn't change. It's a catch all empty word and I think kids should be more aware of their actions and the consequences of them.

Why should kids be more aware of their actions and the consequences of them? Should you be more aware of your actions and the consequences of them?

Indeed, they’ve learnt it’s what their father wants to hear. The lesson they’ve been taught is that saying sorry is important, but actually doing the task isn’t.

Absolutely, you'd hope that most functioning adults wouldn't need the cause and effect pointed out though.

Most adults are not functioning. That's why they like to pick on their kids.

Most adults are almost completely fucked up due to their crappy upbringings, and then take it out on their kids