*Spoilers spoilers spoilers* the running grave spoilers thread.. (Content warning - mentions suicide)

[EggTheParrot]

Just as the title says really.. spoilers ok in this thread. Let's keep the other one spoiler free??

Oh my god why is Robyn going undercover!

Is it ever explained why mazu didn't have more children?

It'll definitely be distressing, but there are lots of "tasteful" ways of doing it that wouldn't be gratuitous or sadistic. JKR's stuff is dark, always has been. Funny, profound, illuminating, uplifting, engaging...and dark.

I thought she did, Taio and Jaiyu are her children, aren’t they?

Yes, that's why they had special status within the community.

I expect they will just do it like in the book, i.e. have Strike spell it out to Abigail and get a confession out of her.

I wonder why Taio was treated so much better than Jiang was, to the extent that Jiang's parentage was never even spoken about? Both seemed fairly repulsive individuals.

I think Jian's low status is a recent development.

Prior to Robin's arrival at Chapman Farm, Jiang's 'spirit-bonding' with Louise led to the birth of poor little Jacob, who has some kind of disability.

After that, Jiang is banned from 'spirit-bonding'. I think Jacob's disabilities are attributed to some sort of spiritual deficiency in Jiang and Louise.

If Strike investigations hadn't interfered, and the cult had been allowed to carry on as it was, I think Jiang would have slowly regained his original social status once Jacob was dead and no longer a reminder.

But I thought his "NIM" status stemmed from before that. Didn't Emily say he was only allowed to go with Louise because they thought her childbearing years were behind her? I need to reread that chapter.

You're right, Emily did.

Maybe this isn't the first time a child of his has been born with visible difficulties?

Just finished this - loved it so much. I agree with a PP that the series brings back something of the excitement of reading HP for the first time as a child/teenager. Being so excited when a new one comes one, reading it at top speed, being totally immersed in the world and the mystery. All the HP books are basically mystery novels for kids with magic so it's not surprising to see her absolutely mastering the adult mystery thriller genre. JKR is so brilliant.

A lot of the cult stuff reminded me of Cult Following by Bexy Cameron - I bet she's read it. An incredible book, though harrowing.

Yes, he was considered safe to sleep with Louise as she was older and unlikely to be fertile.

From the way he spoke and behaved, and his constant eye twitching, I assumed he had some form of learning difficulty. Which would have made him “undesirable” to
procreate with in the church.

One of the reasons given for Becca still being a virgin was because of Kevin’s mental health issues, which gives weight to the theory that anyone with what is considered to be “bad blood” is not allowed to procreate.

That was my assumption anyway, could be wrong!

This thread has made me realise just how bad I am at celebrity names.

For Ruth Wilson I was picturing Rebel Wilson and was very confused as to why people thought she was right for the role.

and for Susan Lynch I was thinking of Susan Hampshire and thinking “well it would have needed to be far longer than 10 years ago!”

uuughhhshsh I think you're 100% right. The church only wants as many pregnancies as possible, so they can sell the babies. So they'll want healthy, photogenic ones.

Right, I'm re reading the one about Boris Johnson (Lethal White) and I have questions.

What legal right do private detectives have to lie their way past government security and plant listening devices in ministers offices?

Surely Robyn was breaking the law by doing that? I don't know how she sleeps at night.

Isn't it mentioned in Lethal White that the bugging of the MPs office is illegal? I'm sure there's something about how they absolutely must not get caught doing it because they'll be in the shit.

I would imagine that breaking - or at least severely bending - the law is part and parcel of private detective work. It's one of the reasons they can get results when the police can't? In The Running Grave they are presumably breaking the law (trespass) when they retrieve the axe and the soil samples from the cult farm land. Means to an end, I can't imagine Robin is going to lose sleep over it!

I've often wondered if crime/mystery writers should join the police as detectives since they can find and analyse clues.

Agree with everyone else; absolutely no legal right to bug people's offices whatsoever! Probably why Strike was so very keen to make sure that the high-powered married barrister knew it was Patterson's agency that had bugged his office, not Strike's.

Makes for a brilliant possible rift with the relationship with Murphy. He may not be able to accept the law breaking aspects of her job!

I think his alcoholism's going to resurface. It was mentioned quite pointedly a few times and wardle (? I think) told Strike that he was nasty when drunk and that had to do with why he split with his wife which was not exactly what he told Robin.

I've just finished and I loved it. I had thought the pigs would be hiding lots of bodies and that's why they were scared of the pigs but I wasn't expecting that they would be used to dispose of a child. I found that bit really dark. I thought she was still alive and that they were going to track her down somewhere. I absolutely loved getting to know Pat and thought the way Strike said to her in the pub about not being fired was so endearing. I am also scared that Bijjo is actually pregnant with his baby because it was referenced so much. I would be disappointed if this was the case. Strike just isn't father material. I love that Strike was the one to save her from the cult and how protective he was of her but equally respecting her enough to not interfere early. Am looking forward to this one making its way to iplayer!

Much easier to find and analyse the clues when you wrote them in there!

In reality there is so much background noise that finding the relevant clues is more like a pointillism painting than a dot to dot.

-Except it is usually the boyfriend/husband/obvious answer and the main problem is making a big and winnable enough case that CPS will bother following it through.

I've been thinking about the names given to children born on the farm, sorry if this has been already discussed upthread. They're non-European names but Jonathan and Mazu are both British, aren't they? Mazu's name is unusual and she was born before the church took over - so are all the names influenced by her naming? And where do you think her name originates? Are the names (Taio, Jiang, Lin etc) just to make the church seem more international or am I missing something?

There’s a bit somewhere about how Mazu liked to pretend she had Chinese ancestry so that would explain the names.

Mazu used the I Ching to choose names for the children born on the farm. Not sure that explains her name though, unless her father was also into that.

I assumed Mazu's name was an alias and her real name was Sheila or something else which didn't scream 'malevolent witch woman' (with apologies to all Sheilas).