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Ukraine Invasion: Part 45

981 replies

MagicFox · 26/09/2023 20:14

Thanks to all: contributors, lurkers and those in-between

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398
MissConductUS · 03/10/2023 22:44

DrBlackbird · 03/10/2023 22:18

Such worrying times. Support waning for Ukraine on several fronts. Feels like the US is a mess. Would be happy for @MissConductUS to reassure it’s not as bad as the press makes out. Cannot believe some of the nutters that get elected and pretty much blame FB for breaking democracy.

Jelly, I can assure you that British parliamentary politics seems just as bizarre and mysterious to us.

The US is a bit of a mess politically, but that is not unique to now. We had a civil war at one time, antiwar and civil rights riots, etc. It is a lively democracy, as they say. 😀

As to Ukraine, the President and a majority of the Senate and the House support continued military and financial aid to Ukraine. I think that ultimately has to determine the outcome of those questions.

DrBlackbird · 03/10/2023 23:04

Yes definitely happy to agree we have some nutters in parliament. Perhaps slightly quieter ones. I was glad that Kennedy decided to run as an independent (I think). The US is such a massive country to govern. But so important to the rest of the world. Glad that support for Ukraine likely to continue. The other worrying news of today was mutterings about running out of weaponry to send Ukraine.

TheABC · 03/10/2023 23:07

I'm concerned about the share of military spending in general in Europe. In the UK, we need to up the % just to replace our stocks and our Army can't take any more cuts. The problem is that the current Government is merely treading water until the point it has to call an election - this week's Conservative party conference feels like a Butlins Halloween disco.

Russia seems to be thriving, despite the difficulties of sanctions and it's not going to stop any time soon.

Igotjelly · 03/10/2023 23:07

MissConductUS · 03/10/2023 22:44

Jelly, I can assure you that British parliamentary politics seems just as bizarre and mysterious to us.

The US is a bit of a mess politically, but that is not unique to now. We had a civil war at one time, antiwar and civil rights riots, etc. It is a lively democracy, as they say. 😀

As to Ukraine, the President and a majority of the Senate and the House support continued military and financial aid to Ukraine. I think that ultimately has to determine the outcome of those questions.

That doesn’t surprise me 😂 we’ve had quite the cast list in recent years and that’s without the day to day wonkery.

2024815pm · 03/10/2023 23:20

I check in here regularly because I'm reassured that if you're not all freaking out then we're probably not going to get nuked by a madman
Thanks for keeping us sane 😍

DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 09:19

Russia throws off nuclear threats like Parisian hotels breed bedbugs ( https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66995977 if you have a strong stomach)

A chap on Twitter who is clearly in the nuclear area used to keep a record. By the time he stopped a few weeks ago he was up to 108 clearly-spoken threats. https://twitter.com/cuthbert_shaw

Is the risk entirely non-existent? No. At least one high profile non-alarmist person has said they think the risk does exist, the President of Finland (I'm excluding the US and Western politicians). @Igotjelly might know more, or others.

But is the risk high? It doesn't look that way, from what we know. Russia has thrown off threats, but that's its modus operandi. It demonstrably works by bullying, but backs down very often. It has drawn red line after red line, and then never done anything. The outlandish threats from the propagandists kinda soften up everyone to think that it might happen but that's exactly how they work - create fear so people back down.

The reason they invaded was because they thought they could get away with it. There were no real verbal threats beforehand, they kinda just amassed their troops and did it, on the back of the terrible US withdrawal from Afghanistan and Putin's own delusions formed during his Covid isolations.

But the West stood up to them (nasty shock) and China has made it abundantly clear that they value stability over the ''friendship without limits" and nukes really get in the way of that. If he does use them, the West will also take military action. It's thought that the battered Black Sea fleet will entirely cease to exist and worse, if Putin uses nukes.

Putin knows the red lines go both ways now.

The time to genuinely worry would be if Ukraine marched in and conquered Moscow, and that's as likely to happen as all those bedbugs getting up in a row and dancing the can-can in little red tutus.

Bed bugs in the seam of a sofa in Paris

Bedbug panic sweeps Paris as infestations soar before 2024 Olympics

France is alarmed as "les punaises", as they're known in French, spread fear and loathing.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66995977

DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 09:25

https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-october-3-2023

Key Takeaways:

  • Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu celebrated an odd group of Russian armed formations operating in the western Zaporizhia Oblast direction during a conference call with Russian military leadership.
  • Shoigu’s choice of units could indicate he seeks to highlight Russian commanders who continue to follow Russian military leadership’s orders for relentless counterattacks.
  • The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) signaled its support for both Chechen units in Ukraine and Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov amid a recent controversy surrounding interethnic tensions in the Russian government, military, and information space.
  • Russian President Vladimir Putin is reportedly preparing to announce his (certain to win) presidential campaign in November 2023, and reportedly intends to discuss the war in Ukraine as little as is necessary in political messaging.
  • A Reuters report published on October 3 stated that Russian forces have embedded “Storm-Z” units within conventional Russian units to conduct costly counterattacks against Ukrainian gains in key sectors of the front.
  • Ukrainian forces continued offensive operations near Bakhmut and in western Zaporizhia Oblast on October 3.
  • Russian forces conducted a series of drone and missile strikes against Ukraine on the night of October 2 to 3.
  • The Armenian Parliament ratified the International Criminal Court’s (ICC) Rome Statute on October 3.
  • Russian forces conducted offensive operations along the Kupyansk-Svatove-Kreminna line, near Bakhmut, along the Avdiivka-Donetsk City line, in the Donetsk-Zaporizhia Oblast border area, and in western Zaporizhia Oblast and reportedly advanced in some areas.
  • The Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) is reportedly investigating Kursk Oblast Governor Roman Starovoit, likely in an attempt to remove government officials with connections to deceased Wagner Group financier Yevgeny Prigozhin.
  • Russian opposition outlet Verstka revealed that almost half of all occupation officials of the senior and middle management levels in occupied Kherson, Zaporizhia, Donetsk, and Luhansk oblasts are from Russia.
Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 09:46

Kyiv Independent Telegram

Long roundup today.

⚡️ NATO official: Ukraine's allies running out of ammunition (https://kyivindependent.com/nato-official-kyivs-allies-running-out-ammunition-production-must-increase/), production must increase.
Kyiv's allies are running out of ammunition they can supply to Ukraine, Chair of the NATO Military Committee Admiral Rob Bauer said at the Warsaw Security Forum on Oct. 3, CNN reported.
"The bottom of the barrel is now visible," the official said.
"We need the industry to ramp up production in a much higher tempo." [as someone pointed out a while ago, this is a major issue, tho some production is being put in place]

⚡️US Congress ousts https://kyivindependent.com/us-congress-ousts-mccarthy-as-speaker/ McCarthy as speaker.

The U.S. military is ready to send Ukraine some of its long-range Army Tactical Missile Systems (ATACMS) armed with cluster munitions once U.S. President Joe Biden approves the transfer, Bloomberg reported on Oct. 3, citing the U.S. military's chief weapons buyer. https://kyivindependent.com/bloomberg-us-army-ready-to-deliver-atacms-missiles-armed-with-cluster-munitions/

Biden led a call with leaders of allied nations to coordinate ongoing support. The leaders of Canada, Germany, Italy, Japan, Poland, Romania, the United Kingdom, and France joined the discussion, along with the heads of the European Commission, European Council, and NATO.

⚡️ Russian finance minister: Ukraine war is Moscow’s main budget priority https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-war-is-russias-main-budget-priority-finance-minister-says/ The main priority for Russia’s budget for the next three years is strengthening the country’s military and “supporting participants” of its war against Ukraine, Russian Finance Minister Anton Siluanov said on Oct. 3, as cited by Forbes Russia. [1/3 of the overall budget]

⚡️Bloomberg: Hungary wants to cut https://kyivindependent.com/bloomberg-hungary-wants-to-cut-eu-funding-to-ukraine-in-half/ EU funding to Ukraine in half.

⚡️ Czech president: Europe must reduce defense reliance on US. https://kyivindependent.com/czech-president-europe-must-reduce-military-reliance-on-us/

⚡️Ukrainian farmers sow https://kyivindependent.com/ukrainian-farmers-sow-3-million-hectares-of-winter-crops-despite-challenges-but-exports-drop-significantly/ 3 million hectares of winter crops but exports drop. Because of favorable weather conditions, the Agrarian Policy and Food Ministry now expects Ukraine to harvest 79.1 million tons of grain and oilseed in 2023.
Last month, however, only 3.64 million metric tons of agricultural products crossed the border, down from 6.87 million metric tons in the same period last year, according to Agriculture Ministry data.

⚡️Media: Putin may soon announce he will run for president in 2024 https://kyivindependent.com/media-putin-may-soon-announce-he-will-run-for-president-in-2024/

⚡️Minister: Agricultural cargo to be checked in Lithuania https://kyivindependent.com/minister-agricultural-cargo-to-be-checked-in-lithuania-to-speed-up-grain-exports/ to speed up grain exports. This measure will speed up transit through the territory of Poland.

⚡️Russia claims https://kyivindependent.com/russia-claims-ukrainian-neptune-missile-destroyed-over-occupied-crimea/ Ukrainian Neptune missile destroyed over occupied Crimea.

⚡️ Ukraine adds the three largest Chinese oil, gas companies https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-adds-chinese-oil-and-gas-companies-to-international-sponsors-of-war-list/ to 'international sponsors of war' list.

⚡️ Ukraine to procure 100 high-voltage transformers to prepare for Russian attacks https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-to-procure-100-new-high-voltage-transformers-in-preparation-for-russian-attacks-on-energy-infrastructure/ on energy infrastructure.

Investigation: Baltic-registered crypto firms service payments for Russian private army, allow sanctions evasion kyivindependent.com/investigation-baltic-registered-crypto-firms-service-payments-for-russian-private-army-allow-sanctions-evasion/
An international consortium of journalists analyzed close to 300 Estonian-registered crypto companies and discovered dozens of crimes: massive-scale fraud, money laundering, sanctions evasion, and illicit financing of Russian paramilitary organizations such as Wagner Group.

Investigative Stories from Ukraine: Russian drone downed by Ukraine is full of Western components https://kyivindependent.com/investigative-stories-from-ukraine-russian-drone-downed-by-ukraine-is-full-of-western-components/
In this week’s edition: a Russian Ptero reconnaissance drone recently downed by Ukrainian forces was full of Western parts, according to Trap Aggressor, a Ukrainian investigative journalism project.

⚡️ France agrees to provide military equipment to Armenia. https://kyivindependent.com/france-agrees-to-provide-military-equipment-to-armenia/

⚡️Media: Azerbaijan detains https://kyivindependent.com/media-azerbaijan-detains-4-ex-leaders-of-nagorno-karabakh/ 4 ex-leaders of Nagorno-Karabakh.

⚡️Russia's Investigative Committee charges top Ukrainian military officials https://kyivindependent.com/investigative-committee-of-russia-charges-ukrainian-military-representatives-with-terrorism/ with 'terrorism.' he list includes military intelligence chief Kyrylo Budanov, Air Force Commander Mykola Oleshchuk, Ukrainian Navy Commander Oleksii Neizhpapa, and commander of the 383rd separate regiment of remotely controlled aircraft, Serhii Burdeniuk.

⚡️BBC: Burger King still 'open as usual' in Russia https://kyivindependent.com/bbc-burger-king-open-as-usual-in-russia/

⚡️ Kyiv Independent journalist Asami Terajima wins Kurt Schork Award https://kyivindependent.com/kyiv-independent-journalist-named-winner-of-kurt-schork-award-in-international-journalism/ in International Journalism.

Abducting the future: How Ukrainian parents fight to rescue their children (https://kyivindependent.com/abducting-the-future-how-ukrainian-parents-fight-to-rescue-their-children-from-russia/ from Russia. Since last February, nearly 20,000 Ukrainian children have been identified as abducted.

Bloody hell. Nearly 50 artillery!

https://twitter.com/ragnarbjartur/status/1709482429763764404

WAR IN #UKRAINE - OCT 4
■ High activity: Strikes & engagements well above 7-day average
■ Troop losses above 7-day average
■ Triple-digit equipment losses, new 7-day artillery record
■ Drones, APVs, tanks, vehicles also well above 7-day average

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 10:14

UNITED24 Media Telegram

⚡️The EU plans to announce the start of accession negotiations for Ukraine before December, Politico writes.

All three key Black Sea ports in Ukraine have resumed receiving ships, as reported by Bloomberg.
Additionally, the fact that international insurance companies are restoring coverage of insurance risks is an encouraging sign for trade and shipping in the region.

Under Ukraine, Poland, and Lithuania's transit corridor agreement , veterinary, sanitary, and phytosanitary controls for all agricultural cargo heading to the port of Klaipeda in Lithuania will be shifted from the Ukrainian-Polish border to the port itself. This move is expected to expedite the transit process through Poland.

According to a report in The Telegraph citing an anonymous high-ranking military official, Britain has exhausted its available stock of defense equipment that could be transferred to Ukraine. The official states that while London intends to continue providing weapons to Kyiv, Ukraine's current requirements include air defense equipment and artillery ammunition, which the UK no longer has in supply.

Ukrainian State Enterprise "Antonov" is set to manufacture French Aarok UAVs, as reported by La Tribune. The French company Turgis & Gaillard has signed an agreement with "Antonov" for the local production of UAVs based on the Aarok MALE (Medium Altitude Long Endurance) drone.
The Aarok UAV is capable of performing both reconnaissance and strike missions. Its primary armament includes the AASM Hammer high-precision air-to-ground munition, featuring warheads ranging from 125 to 1,000 kg and a reach of 35 km.
A notable feature of the Aarok drone is its stable and robust chassis, enabling it to be deployed in field conditions without the need for specialized infrastructure.
Furthermore, Defense Express, a specialized publication, highlights that a smaller and more cost-effective version of the drone will be produced specifically for Ukraine, although specific details about its characteristics have not been disclosed at this time.

Russia has made an announcement regarding the blocking of all VPN services within the country. Senator Artem Sheikin revealed that the corresponding order from Roskomnadzor, Russia's federal communications regulator, is slated to come into effect on March 1, 2024.
Under this directive, Roskomnadzor intends to block VPN applications, even those available on major app marketplaces like Play Market and AppStore. Additionally, Senator Sheikin mentioned that this order will encompass VPN services that offer access to platforms like Instagram and Facebook, both of which are currently banned in Russia.

Ukrainian Invisibility Cloak: A Game-Changing Technology from Brave1 for Defense Forces
Ukrainian innovators have developed an exceptional defense solution against Russian thermal imaging cameras and thermal imaging-equipped drones. This innovative cloak effectively shields fighters from thermal radiation, rendering them virtually invisible to the enemy, especially for operations involving snipers or Special Operation Forces groups.
Notably, the design of this technology is both compact and lightweight, weighing in at just 2.5 kilograms. It boasts impressive resistance to rain and wet snow, ensuring operational effectiveness even in adverse weather conditions. Additionally, this remarkable raincoat is fire-resistant and offers protection against high temperatures. Field tests have proven its reliability, as demonstrated in the accompanying video with a finished and successfully tested sample. [this is a bit of a panegyric. Wonder how they are in practice?]

The 2023 Nobel Prize in Physics was awarded to scientists Pierre Agostini, Ferenc Krausz and Anne L'Huillier

Photo of the day: the son of a military man supports another military man, Stanislav, at the Kyiv Marathon of Invincibility

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 10:29

Live: Ukraine Telegram

🇭🇺 Hungary has proposed to divide the €50 billion aid package to Ukraine from the European Union into two parts, Bloomberg reports. Budapest proposes to transfer €25 billion at the first stage, and then disburse the rest "based on needs."
Yesterday, the EU approved a resolution providing €50 billion in support for Ukraine over 2024-2027. In addition, the EU plans to unfreeze €13 billion in funding for Hungary so that Budapest will support increased aid to Ukraine.

The Anti-Corruption Prosecutor's Office and Bureau have completed the investigation into the case of former Supreme Court Chief Justice Vsevolod Kniazev. He faces up to 12 years in prison with confiscation of property on suspicion of taking a $2.7 million bribe. NACB (National Anti-Corruption Bureau) is to open the materials to the defense for review.
Kniazev is currently in custody.

British intelligence believes that on September 28, Russian air defense forces "very likely" shot down their own Su-35 over Tokmak, and its loss is an extraordinary event, as it is the most advanced model of Russian combat aircraft and possibly only the 5th case of loss of Su-35. [Russian air defense must actually be very very good then!]

Ukraine Invasion: Part 45
DesdamonasHandkerchief · 04/10/2023 13:14

Interesting tweet from Anton Gerashchenko, not sure it really comes to any workable solution but with the cracks beginning to show in Western unity/funding I fear Putin's watch and wait brief is starting to pay off:

I read this piece by Valery Pekar, Ukrainian professor, researcher and expert, and decided to share it with you. The following is the translation of his Facebook post (I shortened it a little bit):

"Western elites are afraid of three options of how events might develop further:

1️⃣ They are afraid of Ukrainian defeat: it would mean a political defeat for all who supported Ukraine, and strengthening of the global authoritarian vector, with a likelihood of Russian aggression spreading to Europe and the start of Chinese aggression.

2️⃣ They are afraid of Russian defeat: it means Russia breaking down, collapsing, a humanitarian catastrophe, a refugee crisis of a huge scale, uncontrolled spread of nuclear weapons and excessive strengthening of China.

3️⃣ They are afraid of the war dragging on: it means accumulation of fatigue in their societies, aggravation of internal political confrontation, and, in the end, Ukrainian defeat with all the consequences from point 1.

If you [Western elites] fear Ukrainian defeat, Russian defeat, war dragging on, then what remains?

🔷️ One of the options is to continue living with the myths that represent the old outlook on the world, e.g.:

🔹️Putin will die (he won't because a person who has several doubles controlled by his close environment, cannot die);
🔹️After Putin's death Navalny will become president of Russia (he won't because the real power is in the hands of the FSB and other clans and even if Navalny is set free and appointed president, it wouldn't change anything);
🔹️After Putin's death and Navalny's inauguration, he will democratize Russia in a couple of years (he won't because democracy requires citizens and institutions, and Russia has neither).

🔷️ Another option is to freeze the war. But in order to do that, Russian and Ukrainian sides must agree to negotiations and freezing, and neither side agrees to this at the moment: Ukrainian society won't approve if Ukrainian political leaders do that, and Putin doesn't want negotiations. He thinks that time plays into his hands and he just needs to wait for Ukraine to exhaust herself.

🔷️One more option is to do nothing and hope for something to happen that will change the situation or lead to new information appearing. For example, Putin will die (see above). This is what's happening right now, with the slogan "We'll be with Ukraine for as long as it takes" - takes to do what?

❗️So, the absence of vision of how the war will end makes the end of war rather complicated and even impossible (hopefully, no one harbors any illusions anymore that the AFU reaching the borders of 1991 will mean the end of the war).

🔷️ What can be done?

There is only one way: Ukraine must show maximum initiative in this issue. Ukraine must realize, analyze and demonstrate possible scenarios of the post war world to our allies. A desirable scenario must be agreed upon and a request for all the resources and mechanisms that are necessary to carry it out must be made. Formulate a clear and concise message to non-Western countries (sometimes called "the global South"). Gather a global coalition for sustainable peace, like the coalition for Ukrainian defense. Otherwise the marathon will turn into running in circles."

https://x.com/gerashchenkoen/status/1709534079400509654?s=61&t=NaIdJJ_hpeHJ7BCXblc3CMg

DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 13:51

@Igotjelly that Rand article was prescient in foreseeing Moscow fomenting a flashpoint elsewhere to distract from the Ukraine war wasn't it, though it didn't mention Serbia/Kosovo by name.

Igotjelly · 04/10/2023 14:04

Yes I agree, the interview on yesterdays Ukraine the Latest with Dr Ivana Stradner from the Foundation for the Defence of Democracies was a really interesting insight into what’s going on in the Balkans and between Kosovo and Serbia specifically. Her take essentially was that escalation there is almost inevitable.

I get the sense that most experts think the use of nuclear weapons remains very u likely, for a range of reasons, but that to ignore Russia’s sabre rattling entirely is incredibly foolish. I thought the RAND report’s finding that a significant use of multiple tactical weapons in Ukraine is more likely than one being used was interesting.

I think the most likely use of a weapon seems to be in some sort of testing capacity, be it underground or over the Arctic or Black Sea. Though I notice that Russia reiterated yesterday that they have not abandoned the moratorium on testing, which was interesting.

DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 14:18

huh, at the moment they seem to be seriously considering weopons testing in the Artic. There have been various indications in the last week/ 10 days.

Of course it's a very long way from more sabre-rattling to actual use and Russia does like to puff itself up.

Igotjelly · 04/10/2023 14:53

DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 14:18

huh, at the moment they seem to be seriously considering weopons testing in the Artic. There have been various indications in the last week/ 10 days.

Of course it's a very long way from more sabre-rattling to actual use and Russia does like to puff itself up.

For those who haven't read it in full I'd recommend reading the RAND report, starting at page 51 which assesses the risks of intentional nuclear escalation by Russia. In brief:

  • Underground testing of a weapon - Likely that Russia has the capability and motivation for doing so would largely be to scare the West and fracture NATO cohesion. Likely restraining factors include potential loss of status and influence in the Global South and developing countries; potential loss of support from China and uncertainty around what the reaction of the US and NATO would be (because at the end of the day the Russian regime is a survivor).
  • Substantial use of tactical nuclear weapons in Ukraine - Motivation would be largely be to prevent a catastrophic Russian defeat in Ukraine. The report concludes that once the nuclear taboo is broken Russia is likely to see no difference between 1 tactical nuclear weapon which would have limited effects and many. Unlike other commentators (e.g. Hamish Debretton Gordon) they consider it likely that Russia's tactical weapons would be in a usable state. Restraining factors for this scenario are similar to those above but include the overwhelming likelihood of direct Russia-NATO confrontation.
BringBackCoffeeCreams · 04/10/2023 16:08

I try to chilled but it terrifies me. Every time we have a power cut I run to my phone to check I've still got a signal and that therefore nobody has been nuked.

DancesWithDucks · 04/10/2023 16:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Greenshake · 04/10/2023 16:33

Have I missed something? I thought that the nuclear talk had largely faded into the background? That’s not to say it’s to be ignored - but I certainly didn’t think it was being publicly waved about as it has been in the past.

Igotjelly · 04/10/2023 16:33

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 04/10/2023 16:08

I try to chilled but it terrifies me. Every time we have a power cut I run to my phone to check I've still got a signal and that therefore nobody has been nuked.

I get like this, I know it’s very u likely but every breaking news alert terrifies me.

Igotjelly · 04/10/2023 16:34

What is your DH’s current take @BringBackCoffeeCreams ?

Igotjelly · 04/10/2023 16:35

Greenshake · 04/10/2023 16:33

Have I missed something? I thought that the nuclear talk had largely faded into the background? That’s not to say it’s to be ignored - but I certainly didn’t think it was being publicly waved about as it has been in the past.

Seems to have come to the foreground again unfortunately.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 04/10/2023 16:42

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

You're very kind but I'm beyond hope. I have autism and my baseline anxiety is off the scale.

The nuclear thing doesn't worry me on a day to day basis. It's just if there's a power cut as I know that's the first warning sign. From power going out to checking phone is like 5 seconds and then normal freaking out about the neighbour and his bloody strimmer returns.

MrTiddlesTheCat · 04/10/2023 16:43

Name change fail!

Igotjelly · 04/10/2023 16:48

MrTiddlesTheCat · 04/10/2023 16:42

You're very kind but I'm beyond hope. I have autism and my baseline anxiety is off the scale.

The nuclear thing doesn't worry me on a day to day basis. It's just if there's a power cut as I know that's the first warning sign. From power going out to checking phone is like 5 seconds and then normal freaking out about the neighbour and his bloody strimmer returns.

Well regardless of whether you feel beyond help I hope you know we’re thinking of you and sending you love and support ❤️

BringBackCoffeeCreams · 04/10/2023 16:48

Igotjelly · 04/10/2023 16:34

What is your DH’s current take @BringBackCoffeeCreams ?

At the start he bought dozens and dozens of bags of earth, just in case. Plan was, if it happened, to quickly spread the bags out over the living room floor, creating a nuclear bunker in the basement below.

He's now used all the bags on his potato patch and hasn't made any move to replace them. So I think he's not that worried anymore.

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