What do I need to do differently to avoid being every man's friend?

[Grumpyold]

I like men and male company. I like women too but my interests are largely sports based and I work in a very male dominated industry so a lot of the people I spend time with/have things in common with are men. I have a wide circle of friends who are probably slightly over 50% male.

However, I'm now single and even new men I meet seem to enjoy my company, even seek it out, but they never even try to move anything beyond friendship.

I'm not glamorous, but I think I look OK, slim, active, groomed in a natural kind of way, take care with my clothes, classic more than obvious but modern and not too frumpy. (I'm mid 50s).

For example, yesterday afternoon I went out for drinks with a man. I've know him for a long time but we've never been close friends. We were talking about some interesting issues previously and I suggested we could continue it over a drink. Which he jumped at, agreed with the first time and place I suggested and turned up 5 mins early!

We chatted for 4 hours, he changed his plans for afterwards so he could stay longer than planned, we laughed, learned some stuff about each other, had quite a bit to drink, but still nothing. He walked me back to the train, we had a chaste hug goodbye (which I initiated) and I don't expect to hear from him again until we bump into each other at an event.

Why?

But so you come across as interested?

Were you dressed to impress or for pub with a mate? You don't have to do "girlie" but were you giving signals you were interested? Egg contact, physical touch etc?

He clearly likes you as a person.

I'd do what I'd do after a date. Drop a message to say you had a lovely time and you hope to see him soon / do it again / whatever. Then leave it on his court.

Well I have already made the first move....

Because men are men and many, even into their 50, 60s etc, don't want a fun, intelligent, witty woman his age. They just want a 20/30 year old. Personality doesn't matter, they just want them younger.

Exactly

So it’s not going to be long until they need that (free) nurse.

Sadly I'd agree with this. Your mission is to find the guy who can handle you as you are, right now X

How did you “sign off” the date/not date OP?

I know you said you gave him a chaste hug but what did you say? Did you give any indication you’d enjoyed the date/not date and would love to do it again?

That’s the sort of thing I’d do, along with saying “you’ve got my number/here’s my number if you’d like to do it again some time”.

I fluffed that really because we'd talked a bit about some stuff that means he's withdrawn a bit from the things where'd I'd normally see him. I said "that was fun, don't be a stranger" by which I meant "call me!" but I expect he thought I meant come back to the group.

Mmm. If I'd been on the receiving end of "that was fun, don't be a stranger" I'd feel as if it was a polite brush off , romantically at least🤔

I know know but his best effort "bye" , I wasn't getting any encouragement 😆

Bit of probably way off the mark psychowaffle here –

Do you feel a bit emotionally vulnerable/self-protective when feelings (yours) crop up so you protect yourself with bright and breezy, casual comments like “well that was fun, don’t be a stranger”?

Like you don’t want to just come out and say what you really mean for fear of rejection/getting hurt?

Edit: I can imagine that might confuse a guy who could have enjoyed your company immensely but is cautious because you’re not giving off anything other than “professional” vibes, so he errs on the side of caution himself and assumes he’s been friend-zoned.

Yes probably, but doesn't everyone.?

No, not everyone pretends they don't fancy or have feelings for someone they fancy or have feelings for!

You need to learn to flirt. Eye contact, playful teasing, subtle touching etc. So a man knows you're interested and attracted. A decent man will never make a move unless you make it 100% clear you want him to.

Probably, although I think some people are more so than others. I'm pretty sensitive when it comes to the initial ask to go on a date if its someone I meet in real life. Very rare I do it, I find it much easier using dating apps/websites.

After an initial date, tho, if I'm keen I'm usually crystal clear I'd like a second date before leaving. Some sources will say that's not necessarily a good move, play it a bit cool then message or chat after, so you don't look too keen. That doesn't really fit with who I am, it feels a bit like playing games, but it might also be where I'm going wrong .. who knows! You could always follow up the man you like? Maybe he'll say no, but does it really matter? Everyone gets declined sometimes, its normal

Why don't you message him one evening and mention something that you had so-called forgotten to tell him and see if he takes it further with the messages?

@Grumpyold You know there’s a thing where younger men literally have bang an older woman on their list. I have one hobby that is male dominated and have had to rebuff a few of them. It doesn’t help that I’m Asian and men are total perverts for that.

I have a lot of male friends (work in a particularly male dominated area of IT,) and over the years, have had various of them tell me they can't understand why I was single, why I never married, etc - but they have all been married themselves, so safe to tell me I'm attractive with no chance of anything happening (although in most cases, there would have been no chance, even if they were available.) I once complained to colleagues who were letching after a woman in the corridor and got the reply, "you don't count, you're one of us!" (That still doesn't make it okay.) So maybe, if they see you as part of their group, it's at the expense of being seen as an available woman for dating.

It's also possible that they are wary of risking your friendship- if they asked you out, you could be the sort who takes offence and withdraws from much contact in future. Or they might just be shy. Or they might suffer from ED (men our age sometimes do), and be wary of getting close because of that.

I'm 51 and it's over 18 months ago thst I took up OLD - mostly to prove one of my male friends wrong, but it turned out I was the one who was wrong. There are men in their 50s looking for relationships with women round their own age. I have quite a narrow age range on my profile, because I don't really want anyone who's not reached his 40s, and I don't really want them a lot older (though men will lie on their profiles about their age, because of that.) There are also a lot who are still married, just looking for a fuck, or just not worth the bother for many reasons. But there are good men out there, including ones you already know, I expect. i have a very lovely one that's shaping up well, who i met on OLD.

Of course, you could do as I did back when I used to drink, and get really pissed and then be very unsubtle and touchy with the target of your affections, but it mostly didn't go down that well, so maybe not. It didn't leave them in any doubt though...

This is good advice.

Do your conversations get personal, or are they entirely sports-based? When you're chatting someone up, you find out lots about their likes & dislikes, things from their past and plans for the future. You compare with your own, so you can agree on some shared experiences and contrast the differences.

While talking, it's a great idea to imagine sex with them. If you can't (or it's not exhilarating), you either don't fancy him or it would be a very slow burn.

Asking someone out for a drink isn't making a first move! Good that you gave him a hug. Are you scared of asking to kiss?

Yes, I'm aware but men in their early/mid 40s aren't that much younger than me!

With this man, we really did talk about a lot of personal stuff, a serious health scare, his son and how he managed being a single dad, how being a singpe dad came about, his career and how he's looking forward to being able to apply himself to it now son is grown up, various traumas we both suffered during lockdown and the ongoing effect of those on us, difficulties I've had with my children but yes, probably the kind of conversations I'd have with a very close girlfriend rather than flirting. It's really unusual for me to be so open with anyone so quickly though.

If you both confided naturally in each other, everything looks good so far! Perhaps he needs a little more encouragement.

I don't know, it didn't really feel like "confiding" more offloading. There was never a "moment" when we might have touched or kissed.

Maybe he's the same as all the others. His last partner/gf, who he was with on and off with for about 5 years, until a year ago, was c. 20 years younger than us.

Hmm. Last night he liked something I posted on FB a week ago....so he's been looking at my profile? It was something about taking a risk and things working out better than you could have imagined. Unusual for me, I don't usually share motivational or emotional stuff.

@Grumpyold Gross! So he IS one of "those" men, he was with a 33 year old at 53. He's not interested in you like that OP, he's an entitled youth chaser and that's an instant red flag to me. Huge turn off that he would be with someone so much younger. He sees you as a mate.

I don't think it's quite like that, I know her well and she's certainly not the meek young "victim" you might be imaging, she ran him ragged. She is very attractive though.

He did talk about that actually. He has some shame about it and recognises it was all ridiculous. Feels he learned from it, but of course he would say that.

It sounds like this guy isn't really for you, but in general, you are treating men like mates and not letting them know you're interested or attracted to them.

You don't need to say, "I fancy you, how about it?" But it's about body language, eye contact, the playfulness between you. For example, when he says, do you want another drink, you say something like, well I don't know... are you trying to get me drunk? With a mischievous look in your eye. Or when he comes back from the bar, you briefly touch his arm and say, thanks, you're a real gentleman. It sounds ridiculous, but it's just little ways to change the dynamic from 'matey' to sexy. If he likes you, which he almost certainly does if he's out with you, then he'll respond flirtatiously too.

And if he isn't into it, he won't flirt back and you haven't embarrassed yourself by making any kind of a declaration. All you're doing is giving an invitation for him to pursue you and leaving it up to him whether he chooses to take that up.