Page 3 | Sophie Turner files child abduction case against Joe Jonas

SunshineHello · 2023-09-22T09:27:14+00:00

It is being reported this morning that Sophie Turner is suing Joe Jonas, demanding that the children be returned to the U.K. (where they had been residing). It had been agreed the children could spend time with their father in New York, and he is refusing to give their passports to her. How awful for the children. People often seem to forget when they get divorced that their children aren’t pawns in a game.

viviscool · 22/09/2023 11:33

to ensure a future where both of them have regular access to their kids is going to involve
one of them compromising over where they live, so both parents are resident in the same country
(or one of them being a frequent long haul traveller)

adriftabroad · 22/09/2023 11:34

AlienatedChildGrown · 22/09/2023 11:30

Habitual residence holds sway.

Some countries, some of the time, may prioritise smallies being primarily with their mother. But typically it comes down to where are the children habitually resident.

The parent who comes from somewhere else, and wants to go home, has to make a choice. Go home without the children, or stay and have the children (at least some of the time).

Just a heads up for anybody in an international relationship which may result in future children/ existing children living in another country at some point. Do not bank on any “mother card”. Make your plans based on the worst possible outcome (which will depend on the country, visas and right to work can be an issue post split) and be sure you can live with that.

The same applies to anybody considering becoming a trailing spouse.

No matter how you feel that children should be with their mums, and the mums should be allowed to take their children where they can/want to live and work, courts all over the world don’t work like that.

Don’t go anywhere you can’t manage being until your youngest child is 18. Bear in mind that once 18 your children may still want to remain where they grew up and have very little attachment to the place you call home.

I’m not saying don’t do it (I did it, and it’s been great, if a bit nerve racking during the normal ups and downs of a long marriage). But know the frying pan you are climbing into in its fire form BEFORE you make any potentially permanent moves.

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Oh, I absolutely agree. I almost said "some sway". I should have!

ColleenDonaghy · 22/09/2023 11:38

No surprise it's going this way after the divorce was announced while she was in the UK and the DC were in the US. I feel for her, I suspect he completely blindsided her.

viviscool · 22/09/2023 11:41

SpaceRaiders · 22/09/2023 11:21

I seem to remember Mel B having a similarly awful experience with her ex. She had to remain in the US. I seem to have these types of cases on my periphery being divorced and knowing what a shit show family courts are. It’s a huge industry built to extract money from both parties, those with the deepest pockets tend to win. And the needs of the child is lost somewhere amongst it all. I suspect hence why JJ got in there quickly with the leaks to the press.

I agree and whilst she might not have the deepest pockets in celebrity land, her friend Taylor Swift (who had a bad experience with Joe and wrote songs about it) has exceptionally deep billionaire level pockets. I wonder what their two recent meetings were all about?!!

BodegaSushi · 22/09/2023 11:44

I've seen a couple on mentions about mums being 'stuck' in the country of their children's birth/life. Yeah, that's what happens when you marry someone from another country and live there with them and raise children.

I have a relative 'stuck' in South Africa because she chose to marry a South African, move there, have a child and make her life there. Now that she isn't with her husband anymore doesn't give her any right to uproot her child. So she hasn't tried to do it. Celebrities are no different.

UncleOrinocosFlow · 22/09/2023 11:46

I know the horse has already bolted but I have seen this play out so many times over the years and I truly don’t understand why people don’t make “worst case scenario” preparations.

In my case I had already lived in my adopted country for a while when I met my now ex, but it was still clear that having children with him would mean committing to another 18 years here.

Fortunately, although he was a crap husband, he’s a great dad and a great ex-husband and we trust each other, so he has always been happy to sign the forms for me to take our children out of the country. He knows 100% that I will always bring them back again (and if I didn’t, the law would be on his side - or rather, on the children’s side, upholding their right to see both parents and not to be uprooted from their home country).

Anyway enough about me but I really can’t get my head around how nobody close to this couple said look at the statistics and think about what’s going to be best for your children if you split up.

It’s not about who “gets” the children, it’s about the children being able to have an ongoing relationship with both parents.

saffronsoup · 22/09/2023 11:51

UncleOrinocosFlow · 22/09/2023 11:46

I know the horse has already bolted but I have seen this play out so many times over the years and I truly don’t understand why people don’t make “worst case scenario” preparations.

In my case I had already lived in my adopted country for a while when I met my now ex, but it was still clear that having children with him would mean committing to another 18 years here.

Fortunately, although he was a crap husband, he’s a great dad and a great ex-husband and we trust each other, so he has always been happy to sign the forms for me to take our children out of the country. He knows 100% that I will always bring them back again (and if I didn’t, the law would be on his side - or rather, on the children’s side, upholding their right to see both parents and not to be uprooted from their home country).

Anyway enough about me but I really can’t get my head around how nobody close to this couple said look at the statistics and think about what’s going to be best for your children if you split up.

It’s not about who “gets” the children, it’s about the children being able to have an ongoing relationship with both parents.

Hopefully things will settle soon for these two as well. It has all blown up very quickly. The massive argument was apparently on Aug 15th and it seems they never reconciled in any way after that. He filed for divorce on Sept 5th and the first court orders were put out on Sept 6th including the one that the children were not to be relocated pending further legal proceedings. We are now only six weeks past the initial issue that led to this divorce. It is very fresh for both of them. We have zero idea what happened in the lead up, the fight or the the aftermath. Emotions are clearly raw and there was obviously something major and a lot of hurt and pain to have it all end so suddenly.

ReadtheReviews · 22/09/2023 11:54

Aren't they 3 and 1? Imagine how scary that could be for them.

ReadtheReviews · 22/09/2023 11:55

Also the whole she parties too much narrative is odd considering up to this point it was the absolute opposite.

adriftabroad · 22/09/2023 11:58

BodegaSushi · 22/09/2023 11:44

I've seen a couple on mentions about mums being 'stuck' in the country of their children's birth/life. Yeah, that's what happens when you marry someone from another country and live there with them and raise children.

I have a relative 'stuck' in South Africa because she chose to marry a South African, move there, have a child and make her life there. Now that she isn't with her husband anymore doesn't give her any right to uproot her child. So she hasn't tried to do it. Celebrities are no different.

You have seen posters warn people. Nothing more.

saffronsoup · 22/09/2023 11:59

ReadtheReviews · 22/09/2023 11:54

Aren't they 3 and 1? Imagine how scary that could be for them.

I doubt at those ages and the lifestyle they have, they have any idea at all that anything is out of the ordinary. They move around a lot and are frequently only with one parent and the nanny.

adriftabroad · 22/09/2023 12:00

I agree.

SpaceRaiders · 22/09/2023 12:00

Ironically this isn’t just about mums@BodegaSushi Anyone who chooses to have a child with a foreign national can get stuck in a country they no longer wish to reside upon divorce. My brothers wife fell pregnant in the UK where they’d met and had been living for 6 years. Naturally after falling pregnant she wanted to go back home to be closer to her family. My bro uprooted his entire life, even giving up his British citizenship etc. They were divorced within 3 years and he’s had to remain there ever since.

boscabosco · 22/09/2023 12:01

Needmorelego · 22/09/2023 10:30

@SunshineHello this is none of your business and he may have legitimate reasons for doing that.
You don't know.
It's nothing to do with you and gossiping about people you have never met (I assume) is pathetic.

Look at you moderating Mumsnet all on your own 😂

HatandCat · 22/09/2023 12:02

Gosh poor kids, sounds like this is gonna turn nasty

Needmorelego · 22/09/2023 12:09

@kirinm it's not really "talk about them" but bitch about them and say random things about their personalities that we know zero about and may or may not be true.

Mirabai · 22/09/2023 12:11

I know nothing of either of them. But any man who files for divorce with a public campaign to characterise their mother as an unfit party girl is a shit.

If she has fought fire with fire and wants to try to get U.K. residency for the kids, he only has himself to blame.

BodegaSushi · 22/09/2023 12:11

SpaceRaiders · 22/09/2023 12:00

Ironically this isn’t just about mums@BodegaSushi Anyone who chooses to have a child with a foreign national can get stuck in a country they no longer wish to reside upon divorce. My brothers wife fell pregnant in the UK where they’d met and had been living for 6 years. Naturally after falling pregnant she wanted to go back home to be closer to her family. My bro uprooted his entire life, even giving up his British citizenship etc. They were divorced within 3 years and he’s had to remain there ever since.

I know it isn't just mums, but the parents mentioned in this thread in a similar situation were Sophie Turner and Mel B. Who are mums, so that's why I said 'mums'.

An interesting 'dad' story is the husband of actress Kelly Rutherford. They were living in the US with their children but after divorce he lost his rights to live in America and so the judge gave the children to him! As Rutherford was considered able to travel back and forth to Germany.

That one I found really strange, but we have no idea what goes on behind the scenes and what other factors may have influenced that decision.

DirectionToPerfection · 22/09/2023 12:14

He's awful, the stories his PR team have been leaking about her 'partying ways' are so suspicious. She's the one who has been at home with her babies while he toured, and now at the first sniff of her getting back to work he's pulling this shit.

They were very private about the children and kept them out of the press, until he decided to do a pap walk to a restaurant with them. All part of the PR strategy to paint himself as a hands on dad and Sophie as a bad mother. Thankfully it has backfired spectacularly on him.

saffronsoup · 22/09/2023 12:16

DirectionToPerfection · 22/09/2023 12:14

He's awful, the stories his PR team have been leaking about her 'partying ways' are so suspicious. She's the one who has been at home with her babies while he toured, and now at the first sniff of her getting back to work he's pulling this shit.

They were very private about the children and kept them out of the press, until he decided to do a pap walk to a restaurant with them. All part of the PR strategy to paint himself as a hands on dad and Sophie as a bad mother. Thankfully it has backfired spectacularly on him.

She was not at home with her babies while he toured. The kids were on tour with him and the nanny. She was filming Joan in the UK and Spain and had a heavy filming schedule until early September.

Mirabai · 22/09/2023 12:19

saffronsoup · 22/09/2023 12:16

She was not at home with her babies while he toured. The kids were on tour with him and the nanny. She was filming Joan in the UK and Spain and had a heavy filming schedule until early September.

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That poster meant prior to this film. This is her first major piece of work since her kids.

Whataretalkingabout · 22/09/2023 12:21

This whole story is actually a non-issue. They can get dual citizenship for the children and travel on whichever passport they want.

saffronsoup · 22/09/2023 12:22

Mirabai · 22/09/2023 12:19

That poster meant prior to this film. This is her first major piece of work since her kids.

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The poster said while he toured. Other than a brief tour in the fall of 2021, he hasn't toured since they had kids until this August.

And according to Imdb, she has been working the past couple of years.

They moved around a lot together so I think both were home much of the past year.

DirectionToPerfection · 22/09/2023 12:24

Mirabai · 22/09/2023 12:19

That poster meant prior to this film. This is her first major piece of work since her kids.

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Exactly, she didn't work for several years.

There are also reports he pushed her to make public appearances against her will when she was suffering from post natal depression.

Given his family and supposed Christian values, I suspect he wanted her at home and pliant, and has a real issue with her going back to work and asserting a bit of independence.

Mirabai · 22/09/2023 12:29

saffronsoup · 22/09/2023 12:22

The poster said while he toured. Other than a brief tour in the fall of 2021, he hasn't toured since they had kids until this August.

And according to Imdb, she has been working the past couple of years.

They moved around a lot together so I think both were home much of the past year.

Edited

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Not abroad on a major film.

So the poster was wrong about Jonas’s tour dates - does anyone give a fuck?